Ram Spawning - How many times before they get it right?

[BigDaddy]

I've moved a pair of my german blues to a dedicated 20 gallon spawning tank.

They have now spawned once in a community tank and 4 times in this seperate spawning site.

However, the eggs never last their first night, they are always gone come morning.

I know Rams need to do it a few times before they get it right, but their next spawn will be half a dozen!

Should I remove the eggs and see if its an infertility issue? Or should I just be patient with the little buggers.

 

[fishgeek]

what are your water parameters like?
how old are the fish
and what colour do the egg's appear before being eaten?

do you have any other fish in the spawning tank?

andrew

 

[Randall]

Spawning Mikrogeophagus ramirezi

Hello BigDaddy,

Gee, it feels like I'm addressing a character in a Tennessee Williams play. Welcome to the forum; it's great to have you with us!

Andrew asks some very good questions. If your fish are not mature, that could, in part, explain the series of false starts. Also, Mikrogeophagus ramirezi are soft water fish. Higher levels of carbonate hardness have a way of interferring with egg fertility and/or egg development. If it isn't already, house your fish in soft water with very low carbonate hardness.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[aspen]

proper fertilisation of the eggs is inhibited by hard water in most softwater fish, some more than others. the shell of the egg will calcify before the male can fertilise them. if ram eggs are a nice gold colour, they are fertilised. after 2 or 3 days small black dots will appear, and these will grow into larvae with the egg sack connected to it, then these larvae will swim free as they consume this egg yolk. this takes about 5- 7 days, depending on water temp. if they are white, they are likely dead, and either the male is not doing his job properly, or the water is too hard. you may find that the first spawn will be all white, then as the male gets more mature some portion of the spawn will be fertilised till he finally gets them all or most.

i would start adding r/o water till it is very soft. rams can live very well in almost pure water, if it is changed often.

it is important to determine whether this is a problem with the water, the fish or if it is a behavioural problem before doing anything imo. with time and patience you might end up with a good breeding pair. the first step is happening- they are laying... it is now up to you to figure out why there aren't any fry.

rick

 

[BigDaddy]

Just a head's up.

My water out of the tap is pH 7 with only 1 degree of kH less than 3 degrees of gH. Yes I know... most of you would kill for my water.

Additionally, I am using Kent Black Water Expert as an additive to encourage breeding/augment the water chemistry. They had bred without it, but I thought this might help things as well.

My substrate is pool sand, and the eggs are very hard to distinguish from the silica itself. Since this is a golden colour, I'll assume they are being fertilized.

I've had this pair for easily 6 months plus. I was under the impression that german blues reached sexual maturity very early on, 5 months or so. They've been spawning regularly every 3 weeks or so.

I guess I should add some info about the condition of my male. As he's grown older, the extended part of his dorsal has actually doubled over, so it doesn't stay straight up when he extends it. Additionally, one of his pectoral fins is significantly longer than the other. I have another pair in my community tank, and while that male is growing larger too, he is still nowhere near as big as my "breeding" male. Sometimes I wonder if these superficial abnormalities might be playing into things.

 

[Randall]

Additionally, I am using Kent Black Water Expert as an additive to encourage breeding/augment the water chemistry. They had bred without it, but I thought this might help things as well.

Hello BigDaddy,

Me thinks we have the culprit. Adding black water extract significantly increases the conductivity of your water and may interfere with fertilization. I'd remove it from the mix, as well as any other chemical additives. Although well-intended, they can do more harm than good.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[BigDaddy]

Black water was the only additive (other than a very very small dose of nitrate to keep the BGA at bay).

I'll do a few waterchanges to get the stuff out of the system.

I'm thinking I will give them a couple more tries "au naturelle" and then remove the eggs if things don't start going right.

 

[Randall]

Nitrate?!!!

Hello again Big Daddy,

What :?: You're adding nitrate to a dwarf cichlid spawning tank :?::?: That's more than sufficient grounds for excommunication :!: You can easily control algae growth with frequent partial water changes and by cutting back on the hours of light that the tank receives. Nitrate has a way of inhibiting growth, suppressing appetite and preventing your fish from exhibiting their best coloration.

If the algae that you're experiencing is actually a slimy bacterial growth, a dose or two of an aquarium antibiotic should clear it up quickly.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[BigDaddy]

Okay, first off I will NEVER medicate a tank against algae. Not too keen on getting resistant strains of bacteria ...

Secondly, this is a planted tank. While the plants are low light, they will eat up the nitrate.

Third, we are only talking about less than 5ppm over the course of a week before a 50% waterchange. Most community tanks are well over that mark on a regular basis.

If I keep plants in that tank, and leave the nitrates at 0, I get BGA like crazy.