My f1 Apisto closest guess "pebas"

[cichlidmac]

First of all, thanks to Mike for his work and Martin and Toms page. I've been reading a lot about the identification of apisto species and trying to place this guy in a family.

The problem is this fish seems to have distinct markings from a couple of complexes, here's what I have so far.

Caetei: I'm not sure about this one, but the fish seems to have a right angle bar extended downward at the end of the lateral band and is joined with the cadual spot.

Pebas: has a cadual blotch much like pebas and commbrae

Macmasteri: has very defined red/orange cadual borders.

Commbrae: has 3 dotted rows of abdominal bands like the illustration of commbrae in Mikes article.

Here's an updated pic, he's coloring up beautifully.

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[cichlidmac]

I would like to add another trait to this list. This fish is incredibly aggressive! I had a pair housed with my Borellii pair in a 55 gallon with lots of wood, plants, and caves. The males are barely 1.5".

The Borellii male was viciously attacked about an hour ago and had to be euthanized I figured I would remove a pair at first sign of trouble. These fish seemed to get along fine and were seen together quite often.

Totally my fault RIP Blue

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[Mike Wise]

You need to add more information. 2 pieces of information that would help would be: 1) under what name was it sold, and 2) what do females look like? Right now from the limited information I have, I would say it is a population of A. sp. Pebas. This species can be a bit aggressive, but then compared to A. borellii, most apisto species are.

 

[cichlidmac]

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[cichlidmac]

It's the fish Romer collected at km 21. I've bothered you about it before I just wanted to place it in a complex with the information known about other species. It looks a lot like a fish Tom collected in Peru, except his was much darker in color. I'm am 99% sure this fish is from the eunotus complex. Can you give me described species names that are in this complex?

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[Microman]

The fish is not the same as A.sp.Napo 3 that Tom and I collected in 2009, Males look similar but the females caudal patch are different. In my opinion any new fish coming out of KM21 has most likely been placed there by the fishermen which as Tom and Mike know is a very widespread practice in areas this close to Iquitos. This area has been hammered as far as collecting is concerned for at least the past decade so why are fish such as this cropping up there now, so close to Iquitos? Its unbelievable what they are collecting in this area now...
Its a shame but as soon as the fishermen know Dr Romer is en route to Iquitos, Well anything can happen...
Mark...

 

[cichlidmac]

The fish is not the same as A.sp.Napo 3 that Tom and I collected in 2009, Males look similar but the females caudal patch are different. In my opinion any new fish coming out of KM21 has most likely been placed there by the fishermen which as Tom and Mike know is a very widespread practice in areas this close to Iquitos. This area has been hammered as far as collecting is concerned for at least the past decade so why are fish such as this cropping up there now, so close to Iquitos? Its unbelievable what they are collecting in this area now...
Its a shame but as soon as the fishermen know Dr Romer is en route to Iquitos, Well anything can happen...
Mark...

I know it's not the same fish just has similarities. So are you saying it could be a domestic bred fish or hybrid? That was placed in the water?

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[Microman]

No it will be a wild fish.
Mark...

 

[Mike Wise]

It is a Pebas-subcomplex species. These species are found between Oran & Pebas in Peru. Right now there are 3, maybe 4 different species in the subcomplex: A. sp. Papagei/Parrot, A. sp. Roca Eterna, & A. sp. Pebas (several different color morphs). I'm not sure if the fish sold as A. sp. Emerald out of Peru (not A. geisleri Smaragd/Emerald from Brazil) is a population of A. sp. Pebas or not. It is found near Oran, while other A. sp. Pebas forms occur in the Río Ampiyacu near Pebas. I just haven't seen enough photos (or the fish) to say what it is.

Mark makes a very good point. Many commercially valuable fish species are now being collected in distant locations and 'relocated' in places nearer Iquitos. The collectors don't have to travel so far to collect. Of course this reeks havoc on distribution studies. A. allpahuayo is a good example. Römer's description lists the type locality being along the highway between Nauta & Iqutos. Ten years ago it wasn't there, but only in the mid-to-upper parts of the Río Nanay. There is an excellent possibility that the type locality for this species was actually caused by human relocation. Nannostomus mortenthaleri recently was relocated to the eastern side of the Río Ucayali, near Requena.

 

[cichlidmac]

It is a Pebas-subcomplex species. These species are found between Oran & Pebas in Peru. Right now there are 3, maybe 4 different species in the subcomplex: A. sp. Papagei/Parrot, A. sp. Roca Eterna, & A. sp. Pebas (several different color morphs). I'm not sure if the fish sold as A. sp. Emerald out of Peru (not A. geisleri Smaragd/Emerald from Brazil) is a population of A. sp. Pebas or not. It is found near Oran, while other A. sp. Pebas forms occur in the Río Ampiyacu near Pebas. I just haven't seen enough photos (or the fish) to say what it is.

Mark makes a very good point. Many commercially valuable fish species are now being collected in distant locations and 'relocated' in places nearer Iquitos. The collectors don't have to travel so far to collect. Of course this reeks havoc on distribution studies. A. allpahuayo is a good example. Römer's description lists the type locality being along the highway between Nauta & Iqutos. Ten years ago it wasn't there, but only in the mid-to-upper parts of the Río Nanay. There is an excellent possibility that the type locality for this species was actually caused by human relocation. Nannostomus mortenthaleri recently was relocated to the eastern side of the Río Ucayali, near Requena.

Thanks, so is it safe to call Apistogramma sp. pebas cf if I sell fry? Sorry I bother you with so many questions, I'm dedicated in studying and breeding these wonderful fish. There is a lot of knowledge out there for me to soak up.

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[Mike Wise]

No, I wouldn't list it as A. sp. Pebas or even just A. cf. sp. Pebas. I would list it as either 'A. sp. Location 21' (not KM21) or 'A. cf. sp. Pebas (Lacation 21)'. Uwe & Dave never claimed it was from near the KM21 marker on the Iquitos-Nauta highway. I don't know where Römer's Location 21 is, but it is very doubtful that it is located near the KM21 marker. If it is, then the fish is most likely a 'relocated' species originally from between Oran & Pebas.

 

[cichlidmac]

No, I wouldn't list it as A. sp. Pebas or even just A. cf. sp. Pebas. I would list it as either 'A. sp. Location 21' (not KM21) or 'A. cf. sp. Pebas (Lacation 21)'. Uwe & Dave never claimed it was from near the KM21 marker on the Iquitos-Nauta highway. I don't know where Römer's Location 21 is, but it is very doubtful that it is located near the KM21 marker. If it is, then the fish is most likely a 'relocated' species originally from between Oran & Pebas.

Ok, my mistake I assumed location 21 was km 21. Thanks again.

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[lurch1000]

Nothing like keeping it simple