Stocking with Panduro pair

[BakerJay]

Hello to everyone, my first post here!

I currently hold a pair of Panduro's and 15 Pseudomugil Furcatus in a Oase Highline 400 (about 400 liter), dimensions being 1,40 * 50 * 60 centimeter or 55" * 20" * 24".

What could be potentially interesting tank mates? I am aware of the fact that they could potentially spawn so I don't want any bottomdwellers.

I am happy with the current stocking but a little extra diversity without creating tension would be nice I think.

I was thinking about some Otto's when the tank has a little more algue in a few months. Also thinking about some Nannostomus or Killifish. I do think I would need some more floating plants. Hopefully by then the pearl weed has reached the water surface.

Very interested in your thoughts and suggestions!

 

[MacZ]

Nannostomus are a good choice. But that would definitely require more structure towards the surface. As would be the case with Epiplatys (that are the killis I think you meant, right?) Maybe some rather high backed tetras like phantom tetras... But otherwise the tank needs more structure and cover and a lot more plants.

 

[BakerJay]

Nannostomus are a good choice. But that would definitely require more structure towards the surface. As would be the case with Epiplatys (that are the killis I think you meant, right?) Maybe some rather high backed tetras like phantom tetras... But otherwise the tank needs more structure and cover and a lot more plants.

The tank is only a week old (filter well established). There's a kot of plants in de the back ground not visible on the picture.

What kind of Nannostomus would work well with the Pseudomugil?

 

[MacZ]

The tank is only a week old (filter well established). There's a kot of plants in de the back ground not visible on the picture.

I prefer to use plants as an important part of filtration. Especially emersed ones. Ask Darrell @dw1305 about it. Also I love surface covering plants. Fish tend to be much more relaxed.

What kind of Nannostomus would work well with the Pseudomugil?

Pass, I have no experience with combining those. Biotope freak since I started fishkeeping in 1992/93.
I personally love Nannostomus eques, but they need the kind of structure you see in my tank.

 

[BakerJay]

@MacZ my tank has a lid and would like to keep it that way, so emersed is not an option. Will start a shallow tank in my home office sometime this year with lots of emersive growth Did take your advice to heart and added a very big piece of wood in the middle off the tank to add structure and added some echinodorus plants all over the tank. That should provide more structure and coverage.

Started looking into some Nannostomus species, I really like the Mortenthaleri, but I find it somewhat expensive (€15,- per fish). Will stay on the look out for potential deals or a local breeder.

Is there any cichlid that could be combined with the Panduro pair? I'm not thinking about any Apistogramma as that would result in way to much agression.

 

[BakerJay]

I prefer to use plants as an important part of filtration. Especially emersed ones. Ask Darrell @dw1305 about it. Also I love surface covering plants. Fish tend to be much more relaxed.


Pass, I have no experience with combining those. Biotope freak since I started fishkeeping in 1992/93.
I personally love Nannostomus eques, but they need the kind of structure you see in my tank.
View attachment 14067 View attachment 14071 View attachment 14072

Lovely biotope tank

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I prefer to use plants as an important part of filtration. Especially emersed ones. Ask Darrell @dw1305 about it. Also I love surface covering plants...........
I personally love Nannostomus eques, but they need the kind of structure you see in my tank.
View attachment 14067 View attachment 14071 View attachment 14072

I'm a Nannostomus eques fan as well.

The tank is only a week old (filter well established).

As a @MacZ says I'm a <"floating plant obsessive">, I also like the tank to be <"grown in"> before I add any fish. I've just written a "proper" Duckweed Index article <"https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/what-is-the-“duckweed-index”-all-about.73647/">.

I would leave it several weeks before adding any more fish. Basically all that you read about cycling and nitrification is a <"gross simplification of a complex process">.

Started looking into some Nannostomus species, I really like the Mortenthaleri, but I find it somewhat expensive (€15,- per fish).

I haven't kept them, but I believe the males <"are quite aggressive">. I've found most of the Pencilfish and <"Copella etc."> species are much more aggressive then most aquarium literature acknowledges.

cheers Darrel

 

[MacZ]

Also 15€ per fish vor N. mortenthaleri is a good price. Still barely see them under 20€,

 

[BakerJay]

I would leave it several weeks before adding any more fish. Basically all that you read about cycling and nitrification is a <"gross simplification of a complex process">.

Thanks Darrel, my question does not imply I will add them instantly. Not for cycling but more so for behavior. I rather add fish when I feel all the current fish have settled in. That will take a few weeks. I also like the process of reading into new fish before adding them. I am keen to add fish I have no experience with so far.

As for the cycling, I know the simplifications and am well read on the matter. I believe you are somewhat quick to assume someone only has knowledge of simplified stuff, I hope this is only due to your passion on the matter!

I'm a Nannostomus eques fan as well.



I haven't kept them, but I believe the males <"are quite aggressive">. I've found most of the Pencilfish and <"Copella etc."> species are much more aggressive then most aquarium literature acknowledges.

cheers Darrel

Unfortunately I am not completely taken away by the aesthetics of the Eques. But am interested in what makes you guys a fan of this fish, please tell me

What group size would be ideal for an aquarium this size (with the added structure) and grown in plants in a few months?



And what do you feel about adding another cichlid species and if possible what species would you guys recommend?

 

[martin_c]

hi,

my tank has a lid and would like to keep it that way, so emersed is not an option.

i got all my tanks lid, too, but also have emersed plants in all my tanks. If you can get cables for heaters and stuff threw the lid, you can also get e.g. a stem of an Epipremnum threw it

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Unfortunately I am not completely taken away by the aesthetics of the Eques. But am interested in what makes you guys a fan of this fish, please tell me

They require the same water conditions as most Apistogramma spp., they aren't too active (but they interact with one another), they are <"surface orientated"> and they have <"very small mouths">. I should say that I'm a <"tabby fish fan">, but most of the other options have, at least one, disadvantage.

As for the cycling, I know the simplifications and am well read on the matter. I believe you are somewhat quick to assume someone only has knowledge of simplified stuff, I hope this is only due to your passion on the matter!

You are right, I'm very interested in the process of nitrification. I've actually been involved in work on the phytoremediation of wastewater as part of my "day job", as well as a part of aquarium keeping, and there is a surprising amount of overlap.

I'm not going to tell you that mine is only technique that works, but I will tell you that I'm also interested in probability and risk management and "plants and time" combines a high probability of success with low risk. I'd be the first to admit that I've have <"been a terrible fish keeper">, but I'm getting better.

I have some more reading for you, and this about where we are at the moment, but things are constantly changing.

Bartelme RP, Smith MC, Sepulveda-Villet OJ, Newton RJ. (2019). "Component microenvironments and system biogeography structure microorganism distributions in recirculating aquaculture and aquaponic systems". mSphere 4:e00143-19. <"https://doi.org/ 10.1128/mSphere.00143-19">.

In terms of peoples levels of knowledge, I'm not going to make any prior assumptions, but (and don't take this the wrong way, I really do only want to help)

The tank is only a week old (filter well established).

I'm not going to lie either, and the time scale of this straight away sets off some alarm bells ringing for me.

And what do you feel about adding another cichlid species and if possible what species would you guys recommend?

Personally I'd recommend "don't". Others may have a suggestion, but if you end up with a pair of A. panduro, I'm pretty sure they will make the whole bottom of the tank their territory.

If I was going to add more fish it would be a "mid water" tetra. I kept Black-Neon Tetra (Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi) successfully as a <"dither / target fish"> with A. cacatuoides, in a smaller tank than yours and while they aren't a showy fish they colour up considerably when they are happy.

cheers Darrel

 

[MacZ]

Unfortunately I am not completely taken away by the aesthetics of the Eques. But am interested in what makes you guys a fan of this fish, please tell me

I agree with Darrell plus: Due to their tilted swimming position and the fact that they mostly use their pectoral fins to move about they look like underwater hummingbirds.

 

[BakerJay]

I'm not going to lie either, and the time scale of this straight away sets off some alarm bells ringing for me.

The filter has been running for almost 2 years. Kept it running on a different tank in the house during the breakdown and build of this tank. The substrate is also reused and capped of with some fresh substrate and capped with gravel. Tried to not touch the old substrate to keep (aenorobic) bacteria alive as much as possible.

I believe this is enough to maintain a lot of helpfull bacteria. The fact that I never measured nitrite levels above zero is a good indicator of this I believe. What do you reckon @dw1305 ?

 

[BakerJay]

I agree with Darrell plus: Due to their tilted swimming position and the fact that they mostly use their pectoral fins to move about they look like underwater hummingbirds.

I will be sure to check them out in a local fishshop when k have the opportunity, thanks!

 

[Ben Rhau]

I've never kept Pseudomugil, but with apistos I've kept both Nannostomus marginatus and N. unifasciata, the latter of which look similar to eques. I believe most of the species are suitable, but some find that N. beckfordi can more aggressively pursue apisto fry. Otherwise, they are compatible.

Have you kept any Nannostomus before? I highly recommend them. I think the genus as a whole exhibits more interesting behavior most common characins and cyprinids in the trade. I would much prefer a dull-colored pencil fish over the most brilliantly colored tetra, for example. Like a lot folks, I'm not willing to pay $15 per fish for the red or purple species, though it's tempting!

 

[BakerJay]

hi,

i got all my tanks lid, too, but also have emersed plants in all my tanks. If you can get cables for heaters and stuff threw the lid, you can also get e.g. a stem of an Epipremnum threw it

My tank has a solid lid and the cables run down through a dry chamber into the cabinet. I would need to drill a hole but I'm not willing to that considering the tank is too expensive. Just have to wait for a shallow tank and go wild with emersed plants I guess

 

[BakerJay]

I've never kept Pseudomugil, but with apistos I've kept both Nannostomus marginatus and N. unifasciata, the latter of which look similar to eques. I believe most of the species are suitable, but some find that N. beckfordi can more aggressively pursue apisto fry. Otherwise, they are compatible.

Have you kept any Nannostomus before? I highly recommend them. I think the genus as a whole exhibits more interesting behavior most common characins and cyprinids in the trade. I would much prefer a dull-colored pencil fish over the most brilliantly colored tetra, for example. Like a lot folks, I'm not willing to pay $15 per fish for the red or purple species, though it's tempting!

Never had a Nannostomus species before, but you guys do sell it with the enthousiasm

 

[Ben Rhau]

Haha yes, I guess a simpler way to say it is that we dig pencil fish and eques are much cheaper than mortenthaleri.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The filter has been running for almost 2 years. Kept it running on a different tank in the house during the breakdown and build of this tank. The substrate is also reused and capped of with some fresh substrate and capped with gravel. Tried to not touch the old substrate to keep (aenorobic) bacteria alive as much as possible.

It Is your tank, but I would always recommend planting and letting the plants grow in.

Cheers Darrel

 

[Ben Rhau]

The filter has been running for almost 2 years. Kept it running on a different tank in the house during the breakdown and build of this tank. The substrate is also reused and capped of with some fresh substrate and capped with gravel. Tried to not touch the old substrate to keep (aenorobic) bacteria alive as much as possible.

I believe this is enough to maintain a lot of helpfull bacteria. The fact that I never measured nitrite levels above zero is a good indicator of this I believe. What do you reckon @dw1305 ?

This is definitely better than starting with a sterile tank. I think the statement "enough to maintain a lot of helpful bacteria" is where there is some uncertainty, since those populations aren't static. That said, you can still get by in the early going with lighter feedings and more frequent water changes, as you already know.