Well, I actually have a fantail goldfish I put in there from my mother's pond. Doing wonderfully, and I am watching params constantly. Since I had a couple erratic changes in water and tank layout recently, I will try to get all the sand out that I can. I will do a series of water changes and see how that goes.
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Getting the Right Water Parameters.
- Thread starter Tbar100
- Start date
Ok, so I finally got my pH worked out, and my tank is now cycled. My question is this, can I do daily water changes to get the Nitrates down for the German Blue Rams? They are at about 20 ppm, but I want then to 0 obviously before the Rams get here. I have no live plants to bring the nitrates down, so my understanding is that I have to do water changes to get the tank safe for my new arrivals. Is that correct?
Thanks!
Marc
Thanks!
Marc
- Messages
- 577
- Location
- Nottingham, UK
You will do very well to get Nitrates down to 0 and 20ppm is an ok reading IME. Ammonia and Nitrite should be 0 but as Nitrate is the end product of Nitrification by bacteria there is usually some present in every tank.
Please also bear in mind that Nitrate test kits are really quite inaccurate and often tell you you have higher levels than are true.
To reduce it you can use water changes (as long as your tap water is lower than the tank's Nitrate level or you will be adding Nitrate!) or you could add some very easy plants such as floating plants that will grow quickly and use atmospheric CO2 to grow. I find Amazon Frogbit or Salvinia good choices that are easy to control.
Please also bear in mind that Nitrate test kits are really quite inaccurate and often tell you you have higher levels than are true.
To reduce it you can use water changes (as long as your tap water is lower than the tank's Nitrate level or you will be adding Nitrate!) or you could add some very easy plants such as floating plants that will grow quickly and use atmospheric CO2 to grow. I find Amazon Frogbit or Salvinia good choices that are easy to control.
I have a quick question for you all. Do you think that my Rams will be able to withstand a little pH swing during water changes? I have done a few water changes on this tank in the last couple days, and the pH went from 7.7ish down to 7.54ish and then slowly rose throughout the day back to 7.7ish. Will they be able to handle that? I know German Blue Rams need very stable water so that's why I was questioning. I am used the same water to fill the tank back up so I do not know exactly what causes the drastic drop, but other than that, the pH stays pretty stable at 7.7. YAY!
Thanks!
Marc
Thanks!
Marc
7.7 might be too high for the rams. You'd also better double check the pH in their existing tank before you try to acclimate them to that high a pH. PH swings are not good.
Do you let your new/clean water age before you add it back to the tank during water changes? Try setting it up ahead of time and running an airstone/bubbler in it for a day or two. My guess is that the co2 in your tap water is giving the water the lower pH and once it gasses off the pH rises.
If you need to get your pH down, one relatively easy way is to add a source of co2 to the tank. (DIY with sugar/yeast if the tank isn't too big) RO units are also helpful as proper buffers combined with RO can create steady lower ph.
Once again, check the source of your rams. What is the pH they are in now - try to keep yours as close as possible. If the ph varies from your tank to their tank by 1.0 or so, you might have real trouble acclimating them.
Do you let your new/clean water age before you add it back to the tank during water changes? Try setting it up ahead of time and running an airstone/bubbler in it for a day or two. My guess is that the co2 in your tap water is giving the water the lower pH and once it gasses off the pH rises.
If you need to get your pH down, one relatively easy way is to add a source of co2 to the tank. (DIY with sugar/yeast if the tank isn't too big) RO units are also helpful as proper buffers combined with RO can create steady lower ph.
Once again, check the source of your rams. What is the pH they are in now - try to keep yours as close as possible. If the ph varies from your tank to their tank by 1.0 or so, you might have real trouble acclimating them.
- Messages
- 330
- Location
- La Verkin, UT
I disagree re- minor pH swings.. They occur frequently in the wild, especially in small bodies of water but even in larger bodies of water in the rainy season.. I'm not a big acclimation freak, can't really see the point in most cases.. My technique for putting away fish is: Make sure that the temperature is fairly close, (thermal shock is a realiity but a few degrees is not going to cause ich or anything else major..). Make sure that you are placing them in a good environment ( other fish in the same tank or system looking healthy).. Net 'em out of the bag & put them in the tank, it eliminates a lot of the stress (& slow poisoning) caused by the acclimation process..
I know that I will be getting a lot of flak for this statement, probably with references to pH shock, osmotic shock etc. but experience & the unpacking of thousands of imported fish has proven me right. In fact, I once won a major bet with a colleague regarding this: We divided boxes of wild cardinal tetras equally & I used my KISS method while he did the good old drip acclimation technique.. His fish loss after a couple of days was around 10 to 15%.. My losses were practically non-existant.. I guess what I am trying to get across with this tirade is that realistic changes in water chemistry can actually provide a stimulus to the fishes..
BTW: I've done a lot rams commercially at pH higher than 7.7. Just keep the water changes frequent..
I know that I will be getting a lot of flak for this statement, probably with references to pH shock, osmotic shock etc. but experience & the unpacking of thousands of imported fish has proven me right. In fact, I once won a major bet with a colleague regarding this: We divided boxes of wild cardinal tetras equally & I used my KISS method while he did the good old drip acclimation technique.. His fish loss after a couple of days was around 10 to 15%.. My losses were practically non-existant.. I guess what I am trying to get across with this tirade is that realistic changes in water chemistry can actually provide a stimulus to the fishes..
BTW: I've done a lot rams commercially at pH higher than 7.7. Just keep the water changes frequent..
- Messages
- 330
- Location
- La Verkin, UT
Acclimating will normally do no harm as long as the shipping water doesn't have a lot of free ammonia combined with a low pH to keep it relatively non-toxic.. If you add water of a higher pH you are;in effect poisoning the fishes (slowly 
). Also mixing alkaline water with acid generates excess C02. also not a good idea. Of course you could put in an airstone to blow off the excess carbon dioxide which would also tend to raise the pH, which would make the ammonia more toxic- etc.,etc....
). Also mixing alkaline water with acid generates excess C02. also not a good idea. Of course you could put in an airstone to blow off the excess carbon dioxide which would also tend to raise the pH, which would make the ammonia more toxic- etc.,etc....Ok, I am a bit confused, because here is what the breeder said:
If your water has a pH of approx. 7.6 then the hardness will be ok too! This is PERFECT! When you get them take them out of the water they are in and put them in a hard container of some sort and let them settle down. As long as they seem to be under no particular stress then let them calm down for 5-10 minutes and net them and put them in your tank. Done deal! Don’t add your water by dripping, don’t airate the water (there won’t be enough) or anything . . . just plop them in your tank with the lights off and they will be fine!
Now I have ALWAYS acclimated fish, and never had any problems. Are Rams just super sensitive that acclimating could do more harm than good? Can any experts shed some light on this for me?
Thanks!
Marc
If your water has a pH of approx. 7.6 then the hardness will be ok too! This is PERFECT! When you get them take them out of the water they are in and put them in a hard container of some sort and let them settle down. As long as they seem to be under no particular stress then let them calm down for 5-10 minutes and net them and put them in your tank. Done deal! Don’t add your water by dripping, don’t airate the water (there won’t be enough) or anything . . . just plop them in your tank with the lights off and they will be fine!
Now I have ALWAYS acclimated fish, and never had any problems. Are Rams just super sensitive that acclimating could do more harm than good? Can any experts shed some light on this for me?
Thanks!
Marc
All kinds of people do it this way, all kinds acclimate. If you are sure your water is the same as the breeders, and the breeder is guarantying the fish, then go ahead and follow their advice. They will have to make good the fish if they don't make it.
I acclimate. I open the bag and drop in a bit of ammo lock or amquel+. Then I pour them into a bucket and set up a slow slow drip line. Then I net them out into their new home and leave the lights off for a few hours.
Others do exactly like the breeder recommended. This is actually quite common.
Cathy
I acclimate. I open the bag and drop in a bit of ammo lock or amquel+. Then I pour them into a bucket and set up a slow slow drip line. Then I net them out into their new home and leave the lights off for a few hours.
Others do exactly like the breeder recommended. This is actually quite common.
Cathy
- Messages
- 81
I think there is a distinct difference between acclimating fish that you bring home from a fish shop - that have only been in their bag for one or two hours. Or acclimating fish that have been airfreighted w/ longer times in the cartons.
When I pick up from local stores I always use an airline and slow drip. Especially since the stores in this area have different pH & KH. One has higher KH, like mine, but crazy N levels. The best store around has 3 dKH, and my tap is 7 dKH. Also, I don't always know ahead of time that I will be bringing home fish.
However, when I ship fish, I do know before hand. I ask the seller what is their current pH, KH and temps. Then I get my QT tank close to those parameters by mixing RO w/ my tap. When those fish arrive I just feel the bags for temperature differences. If my hand can tell there's much difference then I float, unopened still, for 10 - 20 mins to match temps. Once I open the bag, I pore into a bowl thru a net, then quickly into the tank. When the fish have been in their shipping water for some time, it is much more important to get them out of that old water FAST.
When I pick up from local stores I always use an airline and slow drip. Especially since the stores in this area have different pH & KH. One has higher KH, like mine, but crazy N levels. The best store around has 3 dKH, and my tap is 7 dKH. Also, I don't always know ahead of time that I will be bringing home fish.
However, when I ship fish, I do know before hand. I ask the seller what is their current pH, KH and temps. Then I get my QT tank close to those parameters by mixing RO w/ my tap. When those fish arrive I just feel the bags for temperature differences. If my hand can tell there's much difference then I float, unopened still, for 10 - 20 mins to match temps. Once I open the bag, I pore into a bowl thru a net, then quickly into the tank. When the fish have been in their shipping water for some time, it is much more important to get them out of that old water FAST.
Ok, wonderful to hear. I thought I had missed out on some huge discovery in acclimating fish! I recieved them today, put them in a different bag, and they are floating now. The breeder told me not to use the same bag because he uses special bags that allow oxygen and CO2 to pass through so when it is put in water, no oxygen can get in and the fish suffocate. I will post some pictures ASAP, they are one heck of a beautiful fish! Maybe not as pretty as Cathy's photo, but gorgeous to me because I have never seen one in real life. The breeder sold me a mated pair for the same price so we will see! The female is really small, I don't know if she is full grown or not, but I really don't care how small she is, she is just too darn cute!
They are so cute! One thing I am worried about is this: the breeder said he sold me a male and a female, a mated pair that already bred. Not a problem, one is clearly a male, and the other certainly looks like a female, much smaller, less color, a few spots in her light black spot. The only thing seems like her 4th dorsal fin is the longest. Also the male is MUCH bigger than her, she barely seems full grown. Could they have mated already? I was just watching them, and she is chasing him around like crazy! Could she want to breed that quickly? Her belly is a tad pink and she is pretty plump.
I will get some pics up ASAP
I will get some pics up ASAP
- Messages
- 330
- Location
- La Verkin, UT
She's just eager to spawn & he is being coy.. BTW: That blue spots on the mid-lateral spot & pink belly thing regarding female rams isn't anywhere near 100% reliable ( more like 50%) .. I've had many proven females that lacked one or both.. However, I've never seen a male with either one :wink:.. This could possibly be a result of crossing different populations ( or species! ) of the Ramerizi complex..
) of the Ramerizi complex..Ok, hopefully that is the case. Here are two videos of what she is doing to him. The videos are kind of dark, and my camera does not allow you to zoom after you start recording so they are not the greatest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvqoF6ef8uE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQWjbOcP7rY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvqoF6ef8uE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQWjbOcP7rY
Really? I certainly hope so! The female chases the male around and kind of terrorizes him if she wants to breed? I would think that would be the male. Even so, it is not all the time, only when she sees him enjoying him I guess!
He seems more interested in his reflection than anything else. I even have a cover on the back of the tank, but the sides are really bad. Anything I can do to prevent this?
He seems more interested in his reflection than anything else. I even have a cover on the back of the tank, but the sides are really bad. Anything I can do to prevent this?
