Getting the Right Water Parameters.

[Tbar100]

This pH is driving my NUTS!!!! I have nothing in there but regular aquarium stones!!!! I put peat in the filter and the pH is still rising. It went from 7.38 to 7.12 but is back to 7.2 and rising. Could aquarium gravel raise it that much? What type of sand can I use as a substrate that will be inert and safe for these guys? Thanks!

 

[Lisachromis]

I suggest that you test your local water.

Take a reading after filling a container. Take a reading an hour later, and a day. It may be that the water has some buffers in it.

 

[Tbar100]

Even after it has been put through a RODI filter? Maybe my LFS doesn't change their filters enough.

Edit - I just ran to Ace this morning and got some "Play Sand" hopefully, that will do the trick.

 

[Mike Wise]

It seems that your aquarium sand contains some carbonate material (dolomite, limestone, or coral material). It can rapidly alter the pH - especially in a tank with little buffering ability. The best substrate for softwater species is a quartz sand or a darker quartz/feldspar sand.

 

[michelle]

Hi Tbar100,

I'm still having trouble with mine. I have just set up a 68ltr. tank with aquarium inert silica sand, and mine rises slowly.

I wonder whether the oxygen/lack of oxygen in the water has an effect on the pH, KH GH. Is that right that RO water does not contain any oxygen? I have heard that some people keep an airstone in their RO water container?

Any advice on this?

Michelle

 

[Mike Wise]

If your water had no O2 in it, your fish would have nothing to breath. Air rapidly mixes with pure water. CO2, in the dissolved air, is why pure R/O water is normally on a acidic side. The pH rises because of something other than air is in the tank. It can be anything in the tank other than the water or air dissolved in it.

 

[Tbar100]

Ok, so now all I have is water and sand and the pH is still rising. Is there anything else I can do to just keep it down? I tried putting peat in. It brought it down by .2ish but then began to climb up again. Would mixing half tap and half RO add some minerals to keep it more stable?

 

[ed seeley]

It sounds like something in your sand is dissolving into the water and upping the KH and GH, which will then alter your pH. Have you tested the KH? I would first check the water coming from your RO unit to see the level of that (it should be 0dKH really) and then test the tank water after a night or so.

I would also get some of the sand out and test that with strong acid. If it fizzes it's calcerous and will up the KH and pH and will need to be switched for one that is inert and will not affect your water.

 

[Tbar100]

Ok, I tested the tank water, 3 dkh. Now, I tested it before, right when I put it in the tank, and it was at 0. So somethig is bringing it up. I tested the RO water and that was at 0, although it wasn't REALLY yellow, it was very faint, but I still called it yellow because the tank water went to blue, and then to yellow. I tested the sand with Apple Cider Vinegar, nothing. I also tested my old gravel with the same Apple Cider Vinegar and got nothing as well. Can flake food change the pH?

 

[Mud Pie Mama]

It sounds like something in your sand is dissolving into the water . . .
I would also get some of the sand out and test that with strong acid.

As Ed rightly alludes to: all sand is NOT created equally. Back, oh, not so very long ago, I started my first tank w/ a generic pea gravel. I eventually had to totally breakdown the tank - much nashing of teeth and backbreaking work! Be glad yours is not a 75g!! That's when I learned about limestone chunky-chips contaminating building supply store bag goods. Also, many of the largest suppliers run several production facilities. What's available from Sakrete or Quikrete at one area ie., NE may be different than say CA. So, one hobbiest may report satisfactory results w/ play sand in one area where elsewhere it can be a problem.

I like to use sand bagged for use in water: Pool Filter Sand.

 

[Tbar100]

Ok,

If I had something in the tank previously that was raising the pH, will the pH still be rising when it is taken out, but the water is the same?

 

[ed seeley]

Cider vinegar probably isn't strong enough to cause a visible reaction. You need to try something like brick cleaner that is Hydrochloric acid. I'll bet good money that the sand (if that's all there is in your tank) is the thing raising the KH.

 

[Tbar100]

Ok, I will put HCl on my grocery list. What do you think was causing my pH to raise in the other situation? Just curious. Brick cleaner, or is there another type of vinegar that is at the grocery store that will work better than the Apple Cider, what about White Vinegar, I hear that in the fish world a bit. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[ed seeley]

Brick cleaner or rust remover are the two strongest acids I think that are regularly available, along with the muriatic acid Mike suggested. No Acetic acids are really that strong, as after all you do drink them! Wouldn't want to do that with brick cleaner or rust remover!!!! :biggrin:

If you've still got the same substrate then I imagine that was the culprit, although your rocks and any fake stone ornaments (which can be made from a type of concrete!!) can raise the pH too. Anything that contains Calcium Carbonate will increase the KH and GH and therefore the pH.

 

[Tbar100]

Great. Thansk for the great info. I did not think that the fake plants could change the pH, but they CAN!:biggrin: they have the fake rocks on the bottom. I will test EVERYTHING! I am sure we have some rust remover somewhere... I'll let you know how it goes. For the sand, should I just take a small sample, try and get as much water out, and then pour the acid over it? Rock - just dip them?

 

[ed seeley]

For the sand, should I just take a small sample, try and get as much water out, and then pour the acid over it? Rock - just dip them?

I'd do exactly as you say for the sand and just drip some of the acid on the rocks and see what happens. Good luck!

 

[Tbar100]

:biggrin: :biggrin: Well you won the bet. That fricken sand that I bought because I was having pH problems certainly didn't help. I tested everything with Muratic Acid and the sand, one type of rock, and 2 types of fake plants (had the same rock attached) fizzed. I am really angry I have to get rid of this water and sand now, I was trying to cycle the tank. Darn. Well the old substrate did not fizz so I will try that again, with the safe rocks and plants and let you know how it goes. Thanks for ALL OF THE HELP! You guys helped me more than the forum I have been apart of for more than a year! :biggrin:

 

[ed seeley]

:biggrin: :biggrin: Well you won the bet. That fricken sand that I bought because I was having pH problems certainly didn't help. I tested everything with Muratic Acid and the sand, one type of rock, and 2 types of fake plants (had the same rock attached) fizzed. I am really angry I have to get rid of this water and sand now, I was trying to cycle the tank. Darn. Well the old substrate did not fizz so I will try that again, with the safe rocks and plants and let you know how it goes. Thanks for ALL OF THE HELP! You guys helped me more than the forum I have been apart of for more than a year! :biggrin:

Glad you got it sorted. To be honest I'd save some of the water to help get the cycle going again. You'll soon lower the hardness with a couple of water changes if nothing is raising it in future. At least you know how to make sure this doesn't happen again now and don't worry I think we've all been through this at some point in our soft water dwarf keeping lives!!!

 

[Tbar100]

Ok, I will save about half. In saving that water I hope I do not get too much sand. I will still have the same problem then right? Maybe, I should just get some new water in there, no substrate, no nothing but the filter media and then keep an eye on the pH so that if there is still sand somewhere, I can take that out without having to take the whole tank apart and deal with decor and such. How does that sound?

Edit - So I took "all" the sand out. I say "all" because it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to get sand out of anything, you all know that But I did the best I could, flushed the filter and all. I put no substrate in, just a plant. Quick question, how do I make the plants that I tested with the Muratic Acid safe to be in with the fish? The stuff has warnings all over it (my mother was not too thrilled when I brought it home from Ace Hardware). How can I wash it off? I scrubbed everything in hot water with my hands, and then again when I came home tonight. What else can I do. The plant I put in tonight I rinsed twice, but I am going to take it out in case it is still has traces of the acid. Thanks!

Edit - Wow! You can edit your posts for a long time! Anyway.... GRRRRR the pH is still rising. Must be some sand in the tank still. I am going to turn off the pump and filter, let it settle, and then syphon the bottom. How can I get the sand out of the filter floss. I rinsed it for quite some time last night, but I am guessing more is in there if more is in the tank.

 

[ed seeley]

If you haven't got any fish in then I think you're right - a brand new start. Personally I'd probably chuck anything that was suspect and get new plastic plants and replace the filter floss, then you can be sure. Rather than plastic plants I'd go with dead easy real ones like Java fern and Java moss as they certainly won't raise the pH! They'll grow onto inert rocks or terracota plant pots too which make excellent caves for the fish. Coconut caves and bogwood are excellent too.