Apisto what?

[tjudy]

Here is a very pretty apisto I recently got that I do not think is what I was told it is. I think that it is a color form of A. hongsloi. Am I wrong?

 

[Mike Wise]

It looks too slender for a hongsloi form to me. Hongsloi-complex species all have a ladder-like lateral band. The band has dark scales with lighter centers. Your fish actually looks more like A. viejita! I can't be certain based on just 2 photos. Do you have any other information that you can give us?

 

[tjudy]

The lateral band description 'dark scales with light centers' seems to describe the fish in the images. These two males (different fish) are only about 1.25 - 2.5 inches long, so have not filled out much. I was leaning towards hongsloi because of the belly blotches which look very dark at times (but not when the pics were snapped). Here is a picture of what I thought was a female, but I think is really a male still in juvenile coloration.

 

[tjudy]

The caudal spot is throwing me too. I can see macmasteri... and maybe veijita. I really like the looks of the fish, but ID is killing me. I was told that they were piauensis, but they do nto resemble the piauensis in either DATZ or Romer.

 

[afra]

They look like the Piuensis Red-Blue that I got from the same source. Look very much like Hongsloi without the red bar on the body.

 

[tjudy]

After reading through Romer over and over again I think that the caudal peduncle spot and the lateral line ending at the last vertical band (the 7th) is consistant with A. piauensis. The most dominant feature of the species is supposed to be six to eight longitudunal bands of red spots, which I think I can see in the second male above, on his breast and belly, but are so red that they have bled together to look like reddish blotch... as would be similar to hongsloi or macmasteri..??

So I am back on board with this fish being A. piauensis, albeit a very colorful variety. I suspect the species is highly variable.

Chris... is this a German/European strain? That could explain the color intensity a bit.

 

[Bev N]

I got mine from the same source as Chris. They did come from Europe. Here is a picture I took of the male. Maybe this will help. They were sold to us as
A. piauensis red/blue

Bev

 

[Mike Wise]

Bev's fish look like A. piauiensis, but Ted's definitely are not. Just look at the tail fin. A. piauiensis always has rows of spots on the tail and non-serrated spiny dorsal fin. Ted's fish are typical macmasteri-group species: zigzag lateral band, dorsal spots, & serrated spiny dorsal fin. They might be a hongsloi-complex species, but as I previously wrote, "I can't be certain based on just 2 photos." I suggest sending photos of them in aggression or fright dress. The dark markings are then more visible.

 

[tjudy]

Bev's picture of piauensis is better than any I have seen in the books. Definitely different than the fish I have.

 

[peterK]

Ted, just take a pic of them 'attacking' the mirror. It would be very helpful! I would be very happy to show pics of real A. vejita on apisto.pl forum - there's similar discussion about Mac/Vejita like in here

 

[tjudy]

Apparently I do have a female an she went aggressive today. Iwill try to post some images later this evening.

Ted

 

[bigbird]

I must say though, what a stunning fish from Bev.
I hope one day that in Australia we can get these.
cheers jk:biggrin:

 

[Bev N]

Thank you Ted and JK...on rare occasions I accidently get a decent picture. I wish I had more time to spend shooting pics over doing water changes. I keep telling myself some day I'm going to get organized enough to have spare time.

Bev

 

[tjudy]

Here are soem new image of the fish in question.

 

[Mike Wise]

After looking at the most recent photo, I think Ted is right; the fish probably are a form of the hongsloi-complex. I would expect A. viejita to have red dorsal fin spines and red borders on the coudal fin. Ted's fish certainly are not the Rotstrich/Red-streak form. The male shows a distinct caudal spot. This is unusual for most hongsloi-complex males because the spot is hidden under red colored scales. The closest hongsloi-complex fish that I know about come from the lower Río Caura (Venezuela) and around Puerto Ayacucho, Colombia. Koslowski (2002) & Datz (2005) show similar fish as A. cf. hongsloi (Maripa)-A114 & A. cf. hongsloi (Río Cataniapo)-A113.

 

[tjudy]

I think the female pattern is very telling. It is spot on to the image of A. hongsloi, A110, on the upper right of page 56 in DATZ 2005. Plus, Romer reports that the sexes of piauensis are difficult to distinguish and the images in his book do not show a female with anything close to the brightness and pattern of this female.

 

[Rolo]

Hi,

Interesting....

is this a wild-caught fish?

I just guess... could it be a hybrid between A. hongsloi and another species from A. macmasteri complex?

regards,
Rolo

 

[Bev N]

I thought it might be the hongsloi. If it's from the pair I gave Chris then it's Europe bred Hongsloi Super Rostrich. The females turn very yellow and the males become very striking with the red and yellow. If I was home I'd get a picture of a pair I have all colored up. They are also extermely prolific. I retired my first pair I got a year ago. They had produced hundreds of offspring.

I'm betting the bags got switched as I know he has both types.

They piauensis are very difficult to sex. I just sold a bunch of pairs and after I did my best tossed in a whole lot of extras to cover any mistakes. I do have the piauensis but not sure if there are pairs there. More than likely they are. I can try to pull a pair out for you and take to Baltimore next month if Chris doesn't have any left. By the way I'm looking forward to your talk Ted.

Bev

 

[Apistomaster]

My impression was A. viejita but the variability of of the macmasteri complex plus the effects of selective breeding tends to blur the lines between macmasteri, hongsloi and viejita for me.

Bev,
Your A. piauensis? photo is great. Reminded me of an American Flagfish, native killiefish. I didn't know you were raising so many Apistos. We'll have to consider doing some more trades next Summer. I have all the fish I can handle for now.

 

[chris1932]

Ted and All

In my haste to get all of the fish bagged and ready I think I bagged a whole spawn of Piauensis and mistakenly threw in a spawn of fish that had come in from Columbia as Viejita. I knew the fish was not Viejita and I was waiting for a spawn to grow up. The Hongsloi that I got from Bev all ended up in Baltimore, parents and all. That was a few weeks before and they were Rostrich. Sorry for the confusion.

Chris