A few ID's

[cageman]

First I have another question. On page 73 we can see a A. sp. "Segelflossen" female. The strange thing about it is the round caudal fin. Is it Segelflossen or is it a wrong photo?

Now the pictures. I have an idea what they could be but it is always better to have a few more people look at it who actually saw the species in real life. I only know them out of some books:redface:
Since there are quite a few pictures, I will put just the links below.
A. cf. pertensis
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012190.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012207.jpg
A. uaupesi or A. sp. "Segelflossen"? I now think Segelflossen.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012193.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012194.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012201.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012202.jpg
A. sp. "Blutkehl"? or just uaupesi, Segelflossen?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012210.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012206.jpg
A. velifera
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012197.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012191.jpg

Now comes the difficult part, the females. I will propably come back on this later if I don't succeed.

 

[Mike Wise]

First I have another question. On page 73 we can see a A. sp. "Segelflossen" female. The strange thing about it is the round caudal fin. Is it Segelflossen or is it a wrong photo?

Female A. sp. Segelflossen have a around tail like all iniriidae-group females. The only female apistos that have lyrate tail fins - at leaste until they get very old and take on some of the male's characteristics - are A. martini & A. pantalone.

Now the pictures. I have an idea what they could be but it is always better to have a few more people look at it who actually saw the species in real life. I only know them out of some books:redface:
Since there are quite a few pictures, I will put just the links below.
A. cf. pertensis
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012190.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012207.jpg

They probably are A. cf. pertensis, but seem too young to say for certain. I would keep an eye on these fish. If the male do not develop a high dorsal & stays somewhat small, they may turn out to be A. cf. pertensis (Orangesaum/Orange-seam) - a very rare fish in the hobby - thought to be from the upper Orinoco.

A. uaupesi or A. sp. "Segelflossen"? I now think Segelflossen.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012193.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012194.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012201.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012202.jpg

They are still quite young so I cannot be positive, but I believe that they are A. uaupesi. A. sp. Segelflossen typically shows two well developed rows of spots below the lateral band & a higher dorsal fin than A. uaupesi.

A. sp. "Blutkehl"? or just uaupesi, Segelflossen?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012210.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012206.jpg

The look like the red-faced color morph of A. uaupesi to me. A. sp. Blutkehl shows (at times) a series of dark diagonal bands below the lateral band similar to those of A. iniridae.

A. velifera
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012197.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/cageman13/P1012191.jpg

They could be, but I believe that they are young A. uaupesi. A. velifera has a caudal spot that is separated from the lateral band. Your fish seem to have a lateral band that continues into the tail without a caudal spot.

 

[cageman]

Okay, another thing learned. I thought, because the shape of the caudal finn is so different in comparison to the males, that it might have been another species. (You propably already know, but I meant the picture in the DATZ ofcource. I forgot to mention)

A. cf. pertensis:
They do have a clearly visible red seam on their dorsal fin. But I think I recieved two kinds of pertensis to be honest. Of the 5 fish there are at least 3 red seam pertensis luckily. Nice to hear that I found another rarity in the hobby. Not so nice is that the trio looks kind of weak at this moment.

A. uaupesi/sp. "Segelflossen":
The fish all show spots below the lateral band. I will try to get some more pictures of these ones.

A. uaupesi/sp. "Blutkehl"
I will have to take another look at the diagnostics you gave me. But I think you are right, A. uapesi.

A. velifera/uaupesi:
Again, I will make some more photo's and take a look at the diagnostics given by you.

In all, thanks for the help!
All these fish were sold under one name A. sp. "Brazil" by the way. What's in a name.

 

[lab]

If it's any help, this is what my velifera male looks like:

Actually i didn't get the identity of this one confirmed, so disagreements are welcome.

Lars

 

[cageman]

Wrong post, mea culpa.

 

[cageman]

Thanks for the photo lab!

Well, there is one fish swimming in the group that I have difficulty identifying.
This one
Same fish
Same fish
And again, same fish
Sorry for the bad pictures, I hope they will do.
Could it be a female?

 

[Mike Wise]

It could be a young male A. velifera, or A uaupesi, or even A. elizabethae. I doubt that it is a female. The fish does not show enough black markings for a positive identification. I am surprised that the apistos are not harmed by the Pseudocrenilabris in the same aquarium!

 

[cageman]

I know, the circumstances are far from ideal.
The multicolors are not at all agressive against the apisto's. There are around thirty Apisto's in that tank, I think that could also be a reason.

The fish in question has a round caudal fin. So, if you doubt it is a female, it is a velifera. I will try to make some better pictures.

 

[cageman]

I sold all my apisto's because I wanted to start a paludarium.
But when I saw some of the fish I had sold in the shop, I could not resist. What is life without dwarfcichlids
So I brought me back a couple of A. gibbiceps and a couple of what supposed to be A. uaupesi.
However, I am still not sure of it. I seem to have much difficulty identifying.
Some photos:

I do think they are the same species. They both have the red markings on the underside of the head. The markings meet under the head, ofcource the female has it not as clear as the male. The female has a round tail. That would suggest that I have A. sp. "Segelflossen".

 

[Mike Wise]

The 3 lyretailed iniridae-group species/forms are extremely similar, but can be separated by looking for a few details:

A. sp. Blutkehl/Cutthroat: male's dorsal fin lappets as high or higher than on A. uaupesi. Below the lateral band, on the rear half of the body, vertical bars are present - particularly in fright & threat display - similar to those on A. iniridae.

A. uaupesi: high dorsal fin lappets on males. No abdominal markings, although the leading (front) edge of each abdominal scale may darken, sometimes giving the appearance of rows of dark spots.

A. sp. Segelflossen/Sailfin: extremely high dorsal fin lappets on males, sometime ¼-⅓ x higher than on A. uaupesi & A. sp. Cutthroat. Rows of dark spots present below the lateral band formed from pigmentation on the trailing (rear) edge of the abdominal scales, which extends slightly onto the leading edge of the scale behind it.

On your fish the abdominal pigmentation looks like it is primarily on the leading edge of each scale. I would say, based on what I can see, that you have A. uaupesi. Matsuzaka et al. (1997) shows a similar A. uaupesi specimen reported to have been collected in the Rio Uaupés (p. 58).

 

[cageman]

Than I will call them A. uaupesi.