What would be a good Comminity Male Apisto for this Waterbox Cube 20?

[miniman]

This tank has been set up a week or so with established media. I am needing to fill it a bit more with plants but was just wanting a Centrepeice Fish, and thought an Apisto male might be a good idea. Its a Waterbox Cube 45x45x45cm.

What species Apistos would be the best suited?

Thanks in advance!

 

[MacZ]

Depending on the sourcewater you use I would quickly replace the soil with inert fine sand. If it has KH over 1-2° the soil will lose it's chemical properties within the next 12-18 months, which will end you with a rather unstable water chemistry by then. Depending on the exact soil it might also be fertilized with the small amounts of rooted plants this might end you in a nutrient surplus.
But I'd need to know the GH and especially the KH of your source water to give a better assessment.

And even for a single Apistogramma (good decision!) the tank is structured too open and too brightly lit.
Otherwise I'd go for a smaller species that can deal with higher temp permanently, as the cardinals are best kept at 26-28°C. (means A. borellii are out)

If you change the substrate and add way more wood, leaf litter and (floating!) plants it'll work out just fine.

 

[miniman]

Depending on the sourcewater you use I would quickly replace the soil with inert fine sand. If it has KH over 1-2° the soil will lose it's chemical properties within the next 12-18 months, which will end you with a rather unstable water chemistry by then. Depending on the exact soil it might also be fertilized with the small amounts of rooted plants this might end you in a nutrient surplus.
But I'd need to know the GH and especially the KH of your source water to give a better assessment.

And even for a single Apistogramma (good decision!) the tank is structured too open and too brightly lit.
Otherwise I'd go for a smaller species that can deal with higher temp permanently, as the cardinals are best kept at 26-28°C. (means A. borellii are out)

If you change the substrate and add way more wood, leaf litter and (floating!) plants it'll work out just fine.

Thanks mate, i don’t really want to change the substrate but the plan is more plants for sure! I just ran out of $$ today haha

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I am needing to fill it a bit more with plants but was just wanting a Centrepeice Fish, and thought an Apisto male might be a good idea

It definitely needs to grow in a bit (personally I'd want at least another months worth of plant growth and substrate maturity).

This tank has been set up a week or so with established media

That is the best start, but even with established media there are other aspects to maturity, have a look at <"https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/correspondence-with-dr-ryan-newton-school-of-freshwater-sciences-university-of-wisconsin—milwaukee.71023/"> and the <"Seasoned Tank Time"> concept.

I'm also a floating plant obsessive, so I'd have some <"https://apistogramma.com/forum/threads/ive-written-a-proper-duckweed-index-guide.25399/">.

Cube 45x45x45cm.

It is a bit small (the vertical dimension doesn't really count for Apistogramma sp.), but one of the smaller species should be all right, Apistogramma borellii would be obtainable and would fit the bill, but others may be able to suggest other options.

Edit: I've just seen @MacZ 's post so not A. borellii

cheers Darrel

 

[miniman]

Depending on the sourcewater you use I would quickly replace the soil with inert fine sand. If it has KH over 1-2° the soil will lose it's chemical properties within the next 12-18 months, which will end you with a rather unstable water chemistry by then. Depending on the exact soil it might also be fertilized with the small amounts of rooted plants this might end you in a nutrient surplus.
But I'd need to know the GH and especially the KH of your source water to give a better assessment.

And even for a single Apistogramma (good decision!) the tank is structured too open and too brightly lit.
Otherwise I'd go for a smaller species that can deal with higher temp permanently, as the cardinals are best kept at 26-28°C. (means A. borellii are out)

If you change the substrate and add way more wood, leaf litter and (floating!) plants it'll work out just fine.

I live in Melbourne Australia, we traditionally have soft water

 

[MacZ]

Thanks mate, i don’t really want to change the substrate but the plan is more plants for sure! I just ran out of $$ today haha

Priorities... Soil is an ion exchanger and can leach a lot of nutrients. Invest in (lots of) plants asap is my main advise.

I live in Melbourne Australia, we traditionally have soft water

How soft? I'm about 16.000 km from your location, how would I know the numbers? And sorry, the numbers matter.

 

[miniman]

.
Otherwise I'd go for a smaller species that can deal with higher temp permanently, as the cardinals are best kept at 26-28°C. (means A. borellii are out)

everywhere I’ve read and my lfs told me 23-27c? I’m running the tank at 24c

Yes floating plants are on the menu

 

[miniman]

Priorities... Soil is an ion exchanger and can leach a lot of nutrients. Invest in (lots of) plants asap is my main advise.

How soft? I'm about 16.000 km from your location, how would I know the numbers? And sorry, the numbers matter.

Water hardness is

Hardness

18 mg/L CaCo3

 

[miniman]

Priorities... Soil is an ion exchanger and can leach a lot of nutrients. Invest in (lots of) plants asap is my main advise.

Have you seen Oliver knotts plant iron sand? I’ve got this and it’s a darker substrate so will still work for me, I only have the aqua soil in there as I was hoping to get the plants growing well. Thx for your help

 

[MacZ]

everywhere I’ve read and my lfs told me 23-27c? I’m running the tank at 24c

I'm going by the mean range in the wild, as P. axelrodi are still mainly wild caught, especially if the trade destinations are not in the americas, North America gets proportionally more tankbreds of this species.
I'd probably raise the temp to at least 26°C.

Water hardness is

Hardness

18 mg/L CaCo3

And a 2-digit conductivity. Allright. No problem on that front then.

Then my proposal: Add at least an area of sand and leaf litter for the need of the cichlids to chew sand and forage.

I also agree with Darrell: Let the tank mature for some months before adding an Apisto.

Have you seen Oliver knotts plant iron sand? I’ve got this and it’s a darker substrate so will still work for me, I only have the aqua soil in there as I was hoping to get the plants growing well.

Nope, I'm not a scaper, I've met him once or twice by chance on general aquarium/terrarium conventions, though. My expertise lies in recreating natural habitats, which for Apistogramma are usually very low in any nutrients. I'd use ordinary quarz or pool filter sand.

 

[miniman]

I'm going by the mean range in the wild, as P. axelrodi are still mainly wild caught, especially if the trade destinations are not in the americas, North America gets proportionally more tankbreds of this species.
I'd probably raise the temp to at least 26°C.


And a 2-digit conductivity. Allright. No problem on that front then.

Then my proposal: Add at least an area of sand and leaf litter for the need of the cichlids to chew sand and forage.

I also agree with Darrell: Let the tank mature for some months before adding an Apisto.


Nope, I'm not a scaper, I've met him once or twice by chance on general aquarium/terrarium conventions, though. My expertise lies in recreating natural habitats, which for Apistogramma are usually very low in any nutrients. I'd use ordinary quarz or pool filter sand.

Thanks, it will make it hard for my plants though, but I do understand! Happy to see if I can find a darker sand substrate

 

[MacZ]

Thanks, it will make it hard for my plants though, but I do understand!

Maybe not the optimal but a very effective way of getting plants the necessary nutrients in softwater is closing in from the minimal nutrient threshold. (see Darrell's duckweed index for this). Means you add the minimal amount by way of liquid fertilizers needed to keep them thriving, while the waste products of rotting botanicals and the excretions of the fish are the baseline nutrients.
I combine this with using plants that cheat. Nymphaea has floating leaves, thus can access CO2 from the air and light right at the surface, and plants like Hydrocotyle, that can grow submersed and emersed at the same time. Additionally I use lots of fully emersed plants like pothos and Monstera to provide cover and nutrient regulation.

 

[Mike Wise]

miniman, this is a simple community tank. I personally wouldn't worry about substrate, water values, tank decor, etc. If cardinals can live in it the commonly available apistos can, too. You are not trying to breed the fish (obviously) nor emulate a natural habitat. Some people (like me when breeding fish) are just too conservative. This is a fun hobby. There's no need to make it harder than it has to be. I agree with Darrel that A. borellii would be a very good choice. Living in Oz they will almost certainly be domestic bred and easily adapt to the water you have. A temperature of 24°C/75°F is fine for your fish. Enjoy!

 

[miniman]

miniman, this is a simple community tank. I personally wouldn't worry about substrate, water values, tank decor, etc. If cardinals can live in it the commonly available apistos can, too. You are not trying to breed the fish (obviously) nor emulate a natural habitat. Some people (like me when breeding fish) are just too conservative. This is a fun hobby. There's no need to make it harder than it has to be. I agree with Darrel that A. borellii would be a very good choice. Living in Oz they will almost certainly be domestic bred and easily adapt to the water you have. A temperature of 24°C/75°F is fine for your fish. Enjoy!

Thankyou! I was about to go out and buy some different substrate lol!

Will watch the ammonia levels over the next few days and do a water change every couple of days just in case and look to get a borelli or something over the next month once everything settles in!