Wild Apistos identification please.

[Boupette]

Hello,
Can you identify those Apistogrammas that I bought about a month ago. They are wild from Peru. Thanks.

http://community.webshots.com/album/228834911qfzdin

 

[cdawson]

I'm not an expert, but they look like cruzi or eunotus.

 

[depthc]

Looks like a cruzi to me. These arnt fully mature fish yet are they?

andrew

 

[Mike Wise]

Photos #63 & 67 are A. bitaeniata. The others show one of the many color morphs of A. sp. Pebas. This species can easily be recognized by the combination of a relatively low dorsal fin with only slightly extended tips on the dorsal, anal, & ventral fins, the lateral band being fairly broad (and on females has 1 or 2 more spots along the lateral band than does its closely related cousin A. sp. Papagei/Parrot), along with the fish having a caudal patch made from joining of the caudal spot and a darkening of the central part of Bar 7. No other apisto shows this combination of features.

I am curious how those who thought that it was A. cruzi came to that conclusion? It looks only vaguely like the true A. cruzi, which is a rare species in the hobby. Compared with A. sp. Pebas, the true A. cruzi has a narrower lateral band, a vertically rectangular caudal spot separate from the Bar 7, wider & more prominent abdominal stripes, and a caudal fin that is bicolored - yellow-orange in the upper lobe & reddish in the lower - that sometimes shows short tips on each lobe.

I imagine the problem is caused by looking in books that mis-identified several fish as "A. cruzi" in the past. The problem as I see it is that no one has a book with pictures of the most up-to-date species. The most recent book in English is Römer's Cichlid Atlas which was finished in 1997 - 8 years ago! The Germans are more fortunate. They have had several new apisto books since then. Still, only one explains the differences between closely related fish very well. It's too bad so few people have this book. It makes apisto ID so much simpler. It was written by a middle school teacher who, although a bit wordy

, makes it easy for the average hobbyist to at least get close to the right ID. I wish you all had access to his "divide & conquer" method of apisto ID. I even made a program on the "Art of Apisto ID" once that included all of the known apisto species/forms. Unfortunately it's too long for the average fish club program (2½ hours), as well as being to specialized. Still, I keep it updated as my personal reference resource.

 

[Boupette]

Wow Mike! Your answer is quite remarkable! I don't come too often here 'cause my English is not too good and sometimes I don't understand very well. This time iss ok. ) I'd have to say that you seem to know what your talking about very well! I believe that you're the Mike that Zapzap told he would ask to identify those species.

I knew for A. bitaeniata but not for the others. I rebuilded, moved some pics, change numbers, wrote their names and made the difference between the male and the female (whom were sold to me as male and female), so if you want to check out, in case I made mistakes...

But those species are not all the same. Starting from pic # 25, it's a different specie and it's all the same fish, it changes as times goes by, but today it’s looking much more like the last pictures. Sometimes I wonder if it’s a male or a female??? Can you help me with this specie too?

Just in case of, do you speak French?

Thanks.

 

[depthc]

Heh, well i stand corrected. I simply compared the pictures, didnt do much reading into specific details/characteristics.

I used Uwe Romer's book for comparision and a few images looked most like A. cruzi . But you came back with a greatly detailed ID so good job, i know who to ask for ID help now :biggrin: .

andrew

 

[Mike Wise]

Boupette,

Based on what I see, the fish in photos #25 - 28, 40 & 57 have all of the features of A. sp. Pebas, too. A. sp. Pebas is highly polychromatic. There are several geographic populations that enter the hobby under different names: A. sp. Ampiyacu; A. sp. Dolly; A. sp. Morado (Purple); A. sp. Naronha. It has also been mis-identified as A. cruzi.

I do not speak French, but Hervé Couegnet (he does not speak English) & I correspond frequently. Babelfish works well enough that we can communicate with each other. If you need to write to me, just write in French, in simple sentences, & I will be able to translate it.


Andrew,

Don't feel bad. Uwe shows at least 3 different species in his chapter on A. cruzi. Besides, his book was published before A. sp. Pebas entered the hobby. Hopefully it will be in volume 2.