Viejita or Macmasteri? again :)

[Olga]

Those fish were purchased as A. viejita II, czech bred fish imported to Sweden. Could you, please, have a look a the pictures and tell me what species they are. Thank you.

Male
http://194.165.231.32/hemma/olgochka/Viemale.jpg

Female
http://194.165.231.32/hemma/olgochka/Vjfemale.jpg
http://194.165.231.32/hemma/olgochka/Vfemale1.jpg
http://194.165.231.32/hemma/olgochka/Vfemale2.jpg

 

[depthc]

Difficult one for me but id like to say A. macmasteri.

Andrew

 

[Randall]

Apistogramma macmasteri vs. A. viejita

Hello Olga,

Here in the US hobby, Apistogramma macmasteri and A. viejita have been hybridized; so unless own owns wild or F1 generation fish, it can be very difficult to know what one has. There are others who contribute to this forum who are more knowledgable about these species than I; but, to me, your fish look like A. viejita. Your female exhibits dark ventral markings. I understand that this characteristic distinguishes A. viejita from A. macmasteri.

You have some very beautiful fish. Good luck with them!

All the best,

Randall Kohn

 

[Richgrenfell]

While defined black ventral markings are a good sign for viejita, it's actually the black markings on the females throat and belly that tell you she's a viejita for sure (Linke and Staeck pg 158 has a beautiful picture on one). I recently bought a couple dozen fish sold to me as viejita, posted pics and Mike wise ID'ed them as Macmasteri. Judging from what mike said the differences were between the two, i'd say that your fish are viejita.

Rich

P.S. you can check out pics of my fish and the comments on them here:
http://forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=2794

 

[Randall]

Apistogramma viejita

Hello guys,

Just for clarification, the throat and belly of a fish are part of its ventral region.

All the best,

Randall Kohn

 

[Richgrenfell]

Apologies Randall, I read ventral fins when I read your post, not region. My mistake...

Rich

 

[Mike Wise]

These fish show all of the features characteristic of a domestically enhanced A. macmasteri "Rotrucken/Red-shouldered Mac". It might possibly be crossed with A. sp. Schwarzkehl - of the Rotflecken form (aka "A. viejita" CF II). Every specimen positively identified as A. viejita (aka A. viejita CF I) has reddish tips on the dorsal spines & a round to slighly squared off tail.

it's actually the black markings on the females throat and belly that tell you she's a viejita

This is only true for A. sp. Schwarzkehl/Black-throat (="A. viejita" CF III) The true A. viejita does not have a black throat. Besides, I had A. hoignei from the Rio Orocoa in which the females had black throats.

 

[Richgrenfell]

guess ya learn something new every day huh? I was going on what I learned in the book, though that book is quite old. Thanks again Mike!

Rich

 

[Olga]

Thank you!

Mike, that is very interesting information. Thank you very much! It is great to learn from such a competent person as you are.

 

[Rolo]

Hi,

Here is a picture of A. viejita (F1) from the type locality, where you can see, what Mike wrote. Look at the red seam in the dorsal fin.

For a long time, the A. sp. "Schwarzkehl" (black-throat) was called A. viejita in literature, but after investigations on the type locality it became obviously, that the "Rotsaum"-Apistogramma (red-seam) is the true A. viejita from Kullanders description.

greetings,
Rolo

 

[Richgrenfell]

Mike, are fish like the picture that rolo posted ever imported and available in the states anymore? The hybrids are pretty, but i'd really like to work with fish in their "true" form if at all possible.

Rich

 

[Mike Wise]

are fish like the picture that rolo posted ever imported and available in the states anymore

Yes, the are although the last time I saw them was a couple of years ago in Chicago. They were being sold as 'A. viejita wild'. This is a spectacular fish when the male is in breeding trim. The chest area gets a soot black and the colors stand out.

 

[Richgrenfell]

Exactly the type of fish i'm looking for.

Rich

 

[Andrew Powell]

We purchased our Macmasteri as Veijita. I am not bothered as to what he is actually is as he is a fantastically beautiful fish