testing water quality parameters

[cootwarm]

The testing of water is a new thing to me. I've raised many different fish in the past without ever testing my water for anything except for temperature. Besides live bearers, I've raised Cherry Barbs, Glowlight Tetras, Serpae Tetras, Dwarf Gourami, Kribinsis, Salvini, Blue Acara, and a batch of Angelfish. All I did was make sure my temp was correct and the filters were working properly and I made regular water changes. That was about 10 years ago! Perhaps I was just lucky.

But now, I'm setting my tanks back up and want to try my hand at Apistos for now, then eventually perhaps, Discus. So here I am, learning to test my water parameters. The pH test was pretty straight forward, it had a color chart. I tested a 20 gal that I have a pair of Salvini's with fry. It tested to 6.7.

However the KH test was something else! I put the measured amount of water in the test tube and adding one drop at a time (mixing between drops), I need to count the drops until it turns bright yellow but I have no color chart! What is bright yellow??? :?

I (think) my KH is 4.
When I added the first drop the water it turned light blue,
the second drop it turned light yellow with perhaps a tint of green,
the third drop turned it a definite yellow,
the forth drop seemed to turn it a little yellower.
Is my KH 3 or 4? Or should I have continued to add drops.

When do I stop? Should I have continued with more drops and it might be higher?

What about electronic testers?
I liked what I read about the Hanna Combo meter for pH/EC/TDS/temp. I read where EC is Electrical Conductivity, or somethiong like that.
What is TDS?

Are electrical testers available for KH, GH, Nitrate, Nitrite, etc? If so, what kind of prices are they?
I also read something about CO2 tests, I think might have been related to plant health. How is this tested?

Thanks,
Michael

 

[tjudy]

HI,

OK....

EC = TDS, but they use different units. A meter will measure EC, then convert to TDS for you. If you are interested in the Hanna meter, let me know. I have a few left that I would like to sell before I move this Summer. They arer normally $130, but I will sell you one for $110. I also have lots of solutions.

Hardness (KH), nitrites, nitrates and ammonia cannot be measured with a meter. Those require a colorimetric test kit. I am not aware of a KH kit that turns yellow and green... but I have not seen them all. I have some Hanna KH kits that are only $5. They use a nice big cup and turn pink to blue. Easy to use. If your tap KH is about 4, the kit will go last for about 100 tests.

CO2, if you are injecting CO2, can be tracked with a pH meter or test kit. The pH drops as CO2 increases. There are CO2 test kits if you need to know exact numbers.

If you, or anyone else, is interested in a Hanna meter and/or solutions, please PM me. I am goign to pack them all up by the end of the week if noone wants any. This is a 'fire' sale.. I will let them go at my cost. I have the Combo meters, as well as pH only (two different meters... including an inexpensive one), and EC/TDS only. I also have those KH kits for $5.

 

[cootwarm]

Well I've had a chance to practice using the water test kits. I think I might be getting the feel of it. I can see where this can be very time consuming with many tanks to test! The hardest part is getting the correct amount of water in the test tube.

I've got an idea as to what I need for a pH reading, but I'm not to sure about the hardness readings I need to shoot for. :?

Below I'll list some test results I got with a couple of my tanks. I've done nothing to condition the water except for 'stress coat' for the chlorine. Perhaps someone can tell me what I'm seeing and if I'm high or low.

---------------
One tank is a 55 gal. that I use as a community tank. It's a mature tank that's been up and running for a few years now. I only make water changes once or twice a month. I just tested this one for comparison.
pH = 7.2
GH = 10 (10 drops x 17.9 for ppm)
KH = 3 (3 drops x 17.9 for ppm)

----------------
My 20 gal I tested before water change, I also tested the tap water after 'stress coat' was added but before it was mixed with tank water. Then I tested my tank water after the water change and again the next day. This 20 gal has been set up for about 4 months, I make water changes to this tank every week.

before water change:
pH = 6.4
GH = 8
KH = 2

the prepared tap water:
pH = 7.2
GH = 5
KH = 3

after water change (5gal of 20)
pH = 6.8
GH = 7
KH = 3

20 gal the day after water change
pH = 6.6
GH = 8
KH = 3

What does this say about the water in my tank and my tap water, overall?
Would these differences, when making a water change, stress-out Apistos?
How are these water conditions for raising Apistos?
How would R/O water effect these test results?
How would peat effect these test results?
Should I treat my tap water and allow it to age a day or 2 before using for a water change?

Thanks for any help or advice!

Michael

 

[tjudy]

I think that the water in the 20 is fine for keeping apistos. You may want to reduce the GH if you are trying to breed them or keep a particularly soft water species.

RO would make everything go down. I notice that you pH is dropping, though the KH (which buffers the pH up) is staying the same. That means that there is something producing acidity in the tank. Track the pH daily for the period between water changes, and see how far it goes down. It should hit a lower limit. That limit is determined by the KH. If you want the pH higher, you need to either find the source of the acidity (driftwood maybe?) and remove it, or add KH (baking soda or seachem's Alkaline Buffer).

When you add RO you will decrease the GH and the KH. By decreasing the KH, the pH will go lower.

If you add peat, you will lower the pH, but the GH might go up, or stay the same. Peat adds acidity to the tank.

Try aging the tap water without adding anything to it. See what the parameters are then.

 

[cootwarm]

water changes

I've read many in places, that when raising fry, frequent water changes should be done. But I haven't found any that spell out what frequent is.

Is once a week considered frequent?
Is it more than once a week?
Every other day?
At what point is it "too" frequent?

I know it would mostly depend on the volume of the change as well as the difference in the water parameters. But is there such thing as "too" frequent? Sounds like a lot of questions, but I guess I'm looking for one summerized explaination. :roll:

However, I do have a related question.
If the fresh water was aged a day or 2 running a simple box filter with peat instead of filter medium,
How different would the water parameters be in 24 hours as opposed to 48 hours?
Also how quickly would the water clarity change?

Now that I'm getting a handle on how to measure these parameters, I'm trying to understand what effects them and how to manipulate specific parameters, without changing others.

These forums are a great source of real experienced advice! I've spent hours browsing through post after post and continue to learn more each time. Eventually, I'll probably read every one of them! 8O

Michael

 

[tjudy]

Knowing how much and how often to change the water is one of those things that we all kind of figure out. There realy is not a strict guideline. I think that you can change too much and too often, but a lot of discus breeders would disagree with me.

I would let your eyes and nose guide you. Watch for fish to change behavior. Smell for any hint of 'fishy smell'. Look for water color changes.

The amount of acidification that you will get from filtering peat depends upon the age/strength of the peat and the buffering capacity (KH) of the water. Color change is due to tanins. New peat releases more tanins that old peat.

 

[farm41]

When I have fry, I change 25% every other day. The juvies in the 55g are just 50% 2 times a week. I don't know what that is considered, but that is what I do and it works well for me.

HTH
YMMV

 

[aspen]

for my discus i can change 90% twice a day with no problems. in fact i was doing 90% every day for months when they were juvies. (30 fish up to 2 1/2" in a 90 gal fed 6 times per day.) for apistos, waterchanges don't need to be so frequent. i have found that doing a constant water change schedule is beneficial to maintaining parms.

in a 10 gal with 2 medium size apistos, 50% changed weekly is quite good. for a 30 gal with 25 fish, 50% twice a week is quite good, but once a week wouldn't be THAT bad either.

as mentioned, YOUR standards should be developed according to YOUR needs and exp. i think others have provided you a good starting place, and your observations of your water with your fish should finish the job nicely. if you smell the water and it isn't nice, that is time to change it. if there is a lot of poop on the bottom, clean the bottom. clean your filters when they need it, and no more often than that. clean the sides when you can feel anything on them. (squeeky finger test) etc.

there are no hard and fast rules- let your success guide you.

jmo, rick

 

[cootwarm]

water parameters

Thanks guys. This clears up any questions on my mind!

This fall, I need to remodel my upstairs bathroom. I think I'm going to include an R/O set up under the sink. I can put some type of reservoir outside that wall. It should make a great gravity fed system.

Thanks again,
Michael