Problem with aggie female eating eggs

[michelle767]

Looks like I need some help. Twice (I believe) my agassizii's have spawned. Both occurred after a 30% water change. The first time I couldn't see the eggs, but the female diligently guarded her "cave" (clay pot) for two days. This time I could see (barely, but they were there) the eggs and again she guarded them for two days and then this morning she was swimming around the tank...I checked the pot and no eggs.

I'm pretty sure she's eating them because I saw her picking at them last night. What's going on here? Is it possible that these were just trial runs and maybe the next time things will work out (I know this is often the case with larger cichlids)? Should I make more of an attempt to feed her? I didn't want to put my hands in next to her to place food nearby b/c I didn't want to freak her out.

Or is it possible that it's my water chemistry? The pH in the tank is at 7.6...I know, I should be happy they spawned at all. Incidentally, I can't figure out why the pH is so high in this tank...my other three tanks all register at a nice 7.0.

This can be so frustrating...I appreciate any help.

 

[Mike Wise]

Michelle,

My guess is that your pH is too high. The male's sperm is dying before it can fertilize the eggs (or the eggs aren't developing). If the eggs are dead, then the female will eat them and try again. I would definitely try to get the pH below 7 and you probably need to soften the water somewhat. A. agassizii is not particularly hard to breed if the pH is below 7 and the water is even moderately hard.

 

[michelle767]

I was afraid that was the problem. Hmm...I wish I could figure out why the pH is so high in the tank. I have more slate in there than in any of the other tanks, but I didn't think slate raised pH. Looks like it's time for me to read up on lowering pH. I know a lot of people do it, but it sounds like a daunting process.

Thank you for the help. And quick too

 

[Christine-FishGrrl]

maybe it's the slate... Are you using the same type of substrate in all your tanks? Only use R/O water or CO2 to lower your pH, the chemical crap sold in stores can quickly wreck havoc with your water chemistry and kill your fish (personal experience here). Luckily all your other tanks are okay, so logically, you just need to find the thing that is different in this tank and you should be able to naturally lower the pH of this one tank. Just change one variable at a time until you solve the problem. Maybe start with removing a couple pieces of slate and see what happens with the pH.

 

[michelle767]

Here's what I've done so far:
I decided to retest pH from my tap and in my other tanks (I thought I'd post all the info just because I've found it helpful in the past to see how setups might affect pH).

Tap: 7.0 on the dot.
55G with driftwood, slate, a brick (to weigh down driftwood), Eco-complete and Profile mix: 6.8
29G with a couple of rocks and regular gravel: 6.4!!!
29G with driftwood, slate, and Profile: 7.4

The aggie tank (a 20L) has regular gravel, slate, a piece of driftwood and a brick weighing it down. Even though the brick in the 55G didn't seem to affect pH, I decided to remove it from the 20L. I weighed the driftwood down with some of the slate and then removed several of the other pieces of slate. I did a 40% WC and then tomorrow I'm going to test the pH again.

 

[michelle767]

Well....I figured out what was causing the pH spike. I hate to relay this because it's kind of a dumb moment on my part, but maybe it will help others out.

After removing the brick and some slate, doing the WC and waiting 24 hrs, the pH was still high. I started to think more about what other variables were different btwn this and the other tanks....location. The aggie tank was in my library/computer room, where 2-3 nights a week my boyfriend sits at the computer and smokes cigarettes (okay, so occasionally I do, too). I did a little research online and found out that cigarettes have ammonia added to them to raise the pH of smoke, thereby enabling nicotine to be absorbed more quickly. Different sources pegged cigarette smoke pH at anywhere between 6-8, with the average being 7.6

Of course I knew that cigarettes weren't exactly healthy for the fish (or for me), but I only thought they might shorten life expectancy, if anything. I had no clue that they could affect the water chemistry that much.

I broke down the tank and moved it to another room, doing an 80% water change in the process. It's been over two days and the water is a stable 7.0.

*feeling a little sheepish*

 

[cdawson]

I would probably blame the brick before anything, the large water change would have reduced the raising of the PH the brick had done. It may go back up, I don't recommended using bricks in aquaria different company, different ingredients. It could have a high a level of calcium in it.
Does the brick look in anyways dissolved or corroded?

 

[aspen]

you should acid test everything in the tank. (put a little muriatic acid on it, if it bubbles it is bad.) i use only inert things in tanks where i want to try and lower the ph. ie, a filter, a heater, a clay pot or 2, silk or platic plants and all other materials that i KNOW won't affect hardness.

i would look into the slate for bands of whitish rock running through it.

when you test the ph of your water, aerate it for 24 hours first to allow the gas exchange to happen. you might find that the problem is with your tapwater. mine raises from 7.2 to 7.8 - 8.0 after 24 hours, and is very difficult to move and remain stable unless i cut it with a significant amount of r/o.

i make peat tea by boiling peat moss on the stove, then putting this water into jars. it is very easy to use this way, and by adding this to very soft water you can achieve almost any ph you want. it wil stain the water, but seems a very pleasant water for s/a fish.

rick

 

[cdawson]

Although it's interesting to know that about the cigarette smoke, but wouldn't the ammonia lower the ph and make it more acidic?
Not to mention unless you smoked ALOT (like 2+ packs a day) it wouldn't have that drastic of an effect on your water chemistry. Especially with a tank cover. The walls in the room would absorb all the smoke and chemicals before it would come to rest in the water of your tank. Smoke rises, it doesn't fall.

 

[michelle767]

Well, at least one of the steps I took worked...my pH hasn't been a hair above 7.0 since the last time I posted and I've been testing it every other day. It might have been the brick - I have one in another tank which has a pH of 6.8, but it is a 55. The brick wasn't corroded or dissolved and the slate was regular red slate from the LFS (no white streaks). As far as calcium goes in the brick, that's possible too, but I have moderately soft water and the brick didn't seem to affect that at all. It is probably jumping the gun to say definitively that it was the cigarette smoke, but I don't think I can rule it out yet either. The weather's cold here so no windows were open and there wasn't much ventilation...the smoke didn't rise, so much as hang in the air.

Who knows, though? I'm happy it's down and hopefully they'll get back to business soon.

 

[cdawson]

Smoke does not fall, it rises. Like I said it will collect on the ceiling not in the aquarium. This is why your ceiling goes yellow/brown after years of constant un-ventilated smoking in a room. I don't know where you got the idea that the ph was rising because of the cigarette smoke but it's false. Sand calcium is a major ingredient in bricks, and was more than likely the cause of the raised PH. Cement, lime, calcium, sand and mortar are usually what bricks are made from. Either way you look it the lime and calcium are going to have an adverse effect on your water chemistry.

I hope your fish get back to business too, I want to see pictures of babies =)