Gender confused male or female cacatuoides?

[ncognto]

I purchased a pair from a local breeder about 2 months ago.The male was twice the size of the female and gorgeous but had a bit of a hump to the spine so after talking with the breeder we swapped for another smaller male with less color.These fish were all from the same batch.After introducing the new male with the old female(the female had been bright yellow for a couple of weeks) the new "male" turned as yellow as the female.For the past five weeks he has shown no increase in size and both of them have been bright yellow the whole time.They have spent a little time together but have caves on opposite sides of the tank and he chases her away from his cave when she gets too close.The past couple of days she has lost some of her yellow but he remains bright gold.I found another thread where the female had the finnage of a male but was indeed a female.From observing them I am strongly convinced this is a female but would like some confirmation.Here is a picture of the replacement "male".

 

[ncognto]

Here is a pic of the first male from the same batch.

 

[Mike Wise]

New fish is a male. Females never develop dorsal lappet as high as on this fish.

 

[ncognto]

I did not think so either but this thread has a fish very similar to mine that layed eggs:

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/foru...Breeding-tank-for-my-Apistogramma-cacatuoides

 

[Mike Wise]

If that is a female, then there is no method to sex domestic A. cacatuoides until you see them successfully breed. Very scary!

 

[ncognto]

Hopefully time will tell on this one.I plan on moving these two from the 20 long they are in now into a 40 breeder and adding another pair of cacs with a "known" male and female.So either I end up with two pairs in there or one male and trio of females.My feeling that this one is a female is based on the coloring and behavior towards the original female.Just wanted to try to get more opinions.

 

[ncognto]

I ended up just moving this pair into the 40 breeder once it was cycled along with some black neons and regular neons.The "male" looks more like a male now with longer dorsal and anal trailers and the head has gotten blockier also.Weird thing is he has dug a cave in the back corner which she keeps coming over to and he will chase her away from the area.Isnt this the reverse of what they should be doing...her building and guarding the cave with him roaming about the rest of the tank?he does not follow her very far...just enough to chase her away then he returns to the cave area.He is displaying to her and tail slapping but he is also doing a bit more than pecking at her if she sits still too long in his area.It does not appear to be courting behavior...he wants her out of that area.

 

[ncognto]

quick 1 minute cell phone vid:

[URL=http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i81/corwin67/VID_20140321_155807_349_zps7a3d87a6.mp4][/URL]

 

[ncognto]

So I just checked the nest that that "male" is guarding from the female and there are eggs in there! I am really confused now.Would the male be chasing the female away from eggs?Or is this indeed a female?

 

[Jmty]

are the eggs white? just got some females laying eggs with no males on site,also went to aquamania2 and saw a f.cacatouides looking just like your (very beautiful fish)sold as a pair spoke to the owner a good reputation breeder HE SAID WAS A VERY STRONG STRENGTH FISH LINE,couldn't afford the pair

 

[ncognto]

The eggs were red but it looked like a messy lay as they were mostly on the sand and it only looked to be about 20 or so.The nest is the side of that back rock with the other three sides being an oak leaf laying on edge and it looks like the eggs were laid at the sand/leaf intersection.I looked again this morning and it looks like most of them are gone but I do see some red dots still down there.Its a very bad angle or I would try to get a pic.That was one of the things I was wondering was if a female would spawn without a male in the tank.I looked hard yesterday but could not see an ovipositor on either fish.

 

[Jmty]

i did have a time my triple red took the fry from the female to raise it ??? live and learn , guess fish are not predictable,last wk. had a blue borelli female and an apisto tucurui having an affair seen both get in the cave saw eggs (was happy) but no fry eggs dissapear ? will install a surveillance camera on the tank ,maybe be able to tell what happens.???

 

[ncognto]

Curiosity got the better of me so I moved the leaf and rock to get a better look and there are still 15-20 eggs but they are now attached to the side of the rock.I don't know if disturbing them will cause them to eat them but wanted to see if there were any left.I put it back the way it was so hopefully they wont eat them.the eggs are still a dullish red brick color.any idea on how long it takes them to turn white if they are not fertilized?I have a feeling if they do hatch they will be eaten either by the parents or by the neons and I will miss it.I am going to move the neons out of there once I am sure I have viable parents and let them do their thing.

 

[ncognto]

So they did indeed eat the eggs after I took a peek the end of last week.I got home today and there is a new cave under some driftwood....and the male is aggressively defending it from the female again.I am still quite confused.I guess I will see if these hatch as I can see them without disturbing them.Everything I have read says the female will dig the cave and then guard it from all comers.In this pair its the male who prepares the cave and defends it.He occasionally allows her in then chases her off again within seconds.Both are still quite yellow. I tried adding a third fish in that was definitely male and he was harassed so much by the current "male" that I moved him into a community tank to settle down.

 

[Jmty]

if both are yellow hmmm,might have 2 females? seen that not only with apistos,my festivum lay eggs couple of times being of the same sex ,right after the eggs they fought and ate the eggs ???