Frustrated and annoyed.

[fishseeker]

I am about to take this tank down and start all over!. :evil: :? :twisted: There are worms sticking out of the vents of a couple fish. These fish will waste away and die then a couple more fish will be infected within a few days. Towards the end it appears that the vent of the fish is almost blown out and you can see the worms then. I have tried everything that the LFS have told me and nothing is helping. Today I have just applied a dose of Clout. If this doesn't work I think I'll scream. Below is the best picture I could get. You cannot see the worms in the pic but you can see he enlarged vent.

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=5a972bff-1941-7392-23d9-ee263bff28dd&size=

Thanks,
Fishseeker

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[fishgeek]

worms are a rather frustrating occurence and i believe require medications that in general are prescription, hence some of the fish shop remedies may not help

could you give us a colour of the worm?

cestodes or tapeworms are infrequent cause's of fish pathology and appear white to yellow in colour , they should have visible segmentation(may require magnification)

nematodes or roundworms are more problematic , although it is suggested that most have a complex lifecycle and hence cannot multiply in the aquaria , this does not appear to be hobbyist experience, perhaps the problems encounterd in general are more to do with ineffective medications

I am assuming that you may have camallanus , a red worm that protrudes from the vent

all nematodes will generally cause vague intial signs and again hence the frustration in curing these fish, usually diagnosis of a problem is in the latest stages of the problem and the fish is in a weakend state

early signs maybe lethargy and inappetance , now that you are watching it may become evident in fish even without worms at the vent

All nematodes will respond to antihelminthics (i prefer levamisole or fenbendazol/flubendazol) these are prescription medications and will need to be sourced from a veterinarian(in the u.k anyway)
prescribing regulations would suggest that the animal needs to be 'under the vets care' ie examined , ring first and see if they are happy to accomadate you as fish examination may not be there usual thing

i believe levamisole used to be available in the usa without scripts
and is possibly sourceable from rural farm stores (it is used for cattle and sheep)
dosage is approx .15%(1.5mgs/lt) per litre of water - the large animal wormer is a 7.5%solution hence 1.5mls of this per 7.5 litres of tank water

search google under camallanus and levamisole and there are lots of interesting articles
dependant on where you are you may find bird wormers with levamisl in 'avitrol' available over the counter

these products do not kill encysted larval stages , hence repeat treatments are often required
in my experience results depend on how healthy the fish are at time of treatment

other nematodes capillaria , white usually just produce excess mucous and hence pale sticky feaces
capillatrongyloides

if your so inclined here is an academic link http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_FA091

I know others on the list have differinng experience and if you use the search function with any of the terms relevant you should find some other opinions aswell

good luck
andrew

 

[fishseeker]

Thank you

The worms are indeed red. I am going to talk to our vet tomorrow to see if she will help us out.

It's funny, this is probably a common problem but when you get as frustrated as I am you feel like you are the only one in the world. :roll:

Thanks again,
Fish seeker

 

[Dan724]

Discomed has levamisol in it, it is available everywhere in US.

 

[Xanathos]

Depending on the fish species, you can also try to raise the temperature to 36 celsisus ( must be lile... 98 F or something, I guess ). It works great with discus and rams and generally kills any intern parasites...

Otherwise, like stated above, discomed does a great job vs this plague

Good Luck
Phil

 

[fishgeek]

How you getting on fishseeker
any luck with sourcing meds?
any more worms visible at the vent?

andrew

 

[Randall]

Nematodes

Dear Fishseeker,

Clout contains a powerful insecticide and should take care of the problem. Please dose as per the manufacterer's instructions and follow up with a large partial water change. A second regime may be necessary.

Don't despair, many hobbyists have run into nematodes at one time or another, yours truly included...I know it can be frustrating.

Here's a good, inexpensive book for future reference by Terry Fairfield: http://home.xta.com/fishdoctor/default.htm.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[M0oN]

Those worms are gill flukes, they're really a minor problem in comparison to other parasites your fish can get.

Simple medication is Formalin at a dose of 2 drops per gallon, not sure what affect it has on plants.

I keep discus...so I'm very very used to dealing with parasites...formalin will kill anything external, flat out, it doesn't affect your bio bed either...great stuff and cheap...I think it's 8 dollars for a bottle that should last you years...

If it's an internal parasite your best bet is to use Metronidazole, it's a very safe medication as well. Since it's so widely used you'll need to up the dose to 400 mg per 10 gallons of water. It's common over the counter name is hex-a-mit...

If you can get to a vet then I would suggest asking for Praziquantel, it's generic name is Dylox I believe.

 

[fishgeek]

Moon,
Praziquantel is primarily a cestocidial drug(it wil kill monogene's aswell-gill fluke) and hence is used against tapeworm species , not generally a problem in the aquarium and can occasionally harm some marine fish
it's found in comnbination with pyrantel embonate and piperizine in dog and cat wormers , these latter 2 products will kill nematodes, though i have no experience with them in the aquarium

Gill flukes although large and visible are unlikely to be described at the vent of the fish nor do i believe that i have seen red gill flukes

Do you know how formalin can not affect filter bacteria when it is toxic to almost anythnig?, is it used at low enough dose's that encysted bacterial spores can live through treatment ?
My logic, and it dosen't always work, would have thought that formalin would have killed anything it came in contact with

It is an algacide and so will likely kill plant cells of higher orders aswell

It will deplete oxygen from the water and so may not be ideal if fish have respiratory signs, or must be used with good aeration and caution

All the best
How did the fish fair
Andrew

 

[M0oN]

Moon,
Praziquantel is primarily a cestocidial drug(it wil kill monogene's aswell-gill fluke) and hence is used against tapeworm species , not generally a problem in the aquarium and can occasionally harm some marine fish
it's found in comnbination with pyrantel embonate and piperizine in dog and cat wormers , these latter 2 products will kill nematodes, though i have no experience with them in the aquarium

Gill flukes although large and visible are unlikely to be described at the vent of the fish nor do i believe that i have seen red gill flukes

Do you know how formalin can not affect filter bacteria when it is toxic to almost anythnig?, is it used at low enough dose's that encysted bacterial spores can live through treatment ?
My logic, and it dosen't always work, would have thought that formalin would have killed anything it came in contact with

It is an algacide and so will likely kill plant cells of higher orders aswell

It will deplete oxygen from the water and so may not be ideal if fish have respiratory signs, or must be used with good aeration and caution

All the best
How did the fish fair
Andrew

Don't think formalin affects anaerobic bacteria, couldn't tell you. I've used it successfully in all of my tanks at a dose of 2 drops per gallon and never run into any problems with my biological filters...

 

[kribber]

I couldn't see the picture very well but if you have red thread like worms protuding from your fishes anus it is Camallanus and it is a real problem.
It has been written that it needs an intermediate host. Apparently the copepods living in our tanks will act as that host.
I found clout ineffective and it adversely affected my danio dithers. As mentioned it contains an insecticide and can apparently make fish sterile.
I used levimasole hcl to treat mine. Even after you flush the worms it can take awhile for the fish to recover.
Levimasole and flubendazole will take care of many problems including gill flukes.
This link supplies both levimasole and flubendazole. Charles owns the site and is very helpful. www.inkmkr.com/Fish/#anchorFish.

 

[Randall]

Treating Nematodes

To the forum:

There has been discussion of nematodes here in the forum before. Those concerned may find the following thread of interest:

http://forum.apistogramma.com/viewtopic.php?t=1020

Good luck!

Randall Kohn