Decisions... Decisions.

[Samzter]

Hi guys! This is my first post on here so please be nice! Despite my young age, I have been into fish for quite a while now. I'm on another forum, which I have been part of for just over a year now. I've had a 33g setup for a year and a half. ( don't worry I knew how to cycle and what not) it was stocked with community fish and at one point a trio of rams. They laid eggs but unfortunately they ate them. I didn't have much luck keeping them alive due to disease. Anyways, this tank currently has:
Cardinal Tetra x10
Rummy nose tetra x8
Bristle nose Pleco x2
And panda cories x6

I have been researching apistogrammas for around six months I believe. I recently decided to put an order through to my LFS. I asked for apistogramma agassizi fire red. Even though he told me they were called super red so he ordered those. They should be coming in the next month or so. Since then I have added lots more plants to my tank. Along with 3 caves. I removed 3 of the six rocks and I also removed my smaller piece of driftwood. I do regular water changes of around 40% twice a week. I test my parameters with the api liquid test kit and they are as followed: ammonia:0ppm nitrite:0ppm nitrate:5ppm pH:6.6 ppm. I knew apisto liked a low pH so I invested in Indian almond leave extract, which has steadily lowered the pH from 7.4 to 6.6. I will upload a picture of my tank via my iPhone due to the fact it has a better camera.
On the other forum it was suggested to get 2m 4f.but I personally feel that two males would be mayhem? So I thought 1m 5f? Please may I have your opinions? I would be very grateful for any help received on here thanks guys, I hoped I covered everything but if there is anything else you need to know just ask
Ps: I also brought a brine shrimp hatchery for live food. I also have lots of other frozen foods? What do you recommend for a feeding schedule?

 

[Tom C]

Welcome to the forum!

Sorry to say so, but in my eyes none of the fishes are suitable to combine with a breeding group of Apistogramma.

The Cardinal tetras and the Rummy nose tetras will eat all or most of the fry the Apistos will produce.

Bristle nose Plecos will eat Apisto eggs if they could get to them. And they will chase the Apistos out of any cave the latter would try to occupy for breeding purpose.
And the worst: The plecos are night active, while the Apistos rest/sleep on the ground at night.
The plecos will keep frighten/chase the Apistos up to the higher levels of the tank, again and again, every night!
The stress produced by all this disturbance could actually promote illness and so stressed fishes that they die.

The panda cories would often eat eggs and fry if they find them. But worse:
Apistos are highly territorial when breeding. The Cories don't understand the "Apisto-language" saying that they should stay out of the Apistos' territory.
Instead they will keep coming back to the Apisto territory again and again.
As the Cories' bodies are armored, the Apistos will not find many places on a Cory's body where they could attack seriously enough
to make them disappear from their territory. The most vulnerable parts on the Corys are the eyes, the Apistos
will find this out, and in worst case you could end up with a group of Corys without eyes.

My advice: Reconsider....

Good luck!

 

[Samzter]

Welcome to the forum!

Sorry to say so, but in my eyes none of the fishes are suitable to combine with a breeding group of Apistogramma.

The Cardinal tetras and the Rummy nose tetras will eat all or most of the fry the Apistos will produce.

Bristle nose Plecos will eat Apisto eggs if they could get to them. And they will chase the Apistos out of any cave the latter would try to occupy for breeding purpose.
And the worst: The plecos are night active, while the Apistos rest/sleep on the ground at night.
The plecos will keep frighten/chase the Apistos up to the higher levels of the tank, again and again, every night!
The stress produced by all this disturbance could actually promote illness and so stressed fishes that they die.

The panda cories would often eat eggs and fry if they find them. But worse:
Apistos are highly territorial when breeding. The Cories don't understand the "Apisto-language" saying that they should stay out of the Apistos' territory.
Instead they will keep coming back to the Apisto territory again and again.
As the Cories' bodies are armored, the Apistos will not find many places on a Cory's body where they could attack seriously enough
to make them disappear from their territory. The most vulnerable parts on the Corys are the eyes, the Apistos
will find this out, and in worst case you could end up with a group of Corys without eyes.

My advice: Reconsider....

Good luck!

I would be able to rehome the bristle nose plecos, and the cardinals. Thing is no pet shops where I live take fish. Also barely anyone I know has a fish tank. There is a few but I just wouldn't be able to trust them with fish I really liked. if and this is if I was to sell them, what other fish can go in the aquarium? And is six okay? I'm sorry this is my first time with these. I am one of those people who would be picky as to who they give their fish to. My mother, would hate me for getting rid of them so I'm left with a problem. They are such beautiful fish but if they have to go then so be it. There's no way on earth I'll be allowed to setup another tank either.

 

[Samzter]

Could I replace the bristle nose Plecos with lets say 4-6 otocinlus catfish, with the panda cories I really don't want to remove them, but I know the dangers their in... I just have got attached to them and I don't really trust anyone I know with them... I would love them to breed but it isn't that important. I really need some more answers because I'm stuck

 

[Mike Wise]

Welcome to the forum. Right now you have a wonderful community tank. Unfortunately, TomC is correct. It is very very unlikely that many (if any) fry/eggs will survive. I have stated this many times: a community tank is not an apisto breeding tank. Right now you have 3 choices: 1) keep the tank population as it is (it sounds wonderful!) and forget trying to breed apistos in it, 2) add the apistos to the community and expect very few fry and losses to some of the apistos and maybe some of the other fish, or 3) get a rid of your community fish and turn it into a breeding tank (I hate to see that happen to such a wonderful community tank). One more possibility is to start a breeding tank of suitable size to house your breeding harem of apistos. A trio will require a minimum of a 20 gallon high, but a 20 gallon long tank would be better. For a larger breeding population like you're thinking about, I use a conservative rule of a 1 square foot of territory for each female + areas to which the males can retreat from brooding females. Your 33 might not be big enough. A 45 long/55 would be much better. Then you have to think about what to do with the fry when they appear. You'll need a grow-out tank. Beware this leads to the slippery slope of TBA (tank buying addiction). It's hard to fight off. I still buy tanks, although I have more than my fish room (or I) can handle.

 

[Samzter]

Welcome to the forum. Right now you have a wonderful community tank. Unfortunately, TomC is correct. It is very very unlikely that many (if any) fry/eggs will survive. I have stated this many times: a community tank is not an apisto breeding tank. Right now you have 3 choices: 1) keep the tank population as it is (it sounds wonderful!) and forget trying to breed apistos in it, 2) add the apistos to the community and expect very few fry and losses to some of the apistos and maybe some of the other fish, or 3) get a rid of your community fish and turn it into a breeding tank (I hate to see that happen to such a wonderful community tank). One more possibility is to start a breeding tank of suitable size to house your breeding harem of apistos. A trio will require a minimum of a 20 gallon high, but a 20 gallon long tank would be better. For a larger breeding population like you're thinking about, I use a conservative rule of a 1 square foot of territory for each female + areas to which the males can retreat from brooding females. Your 33 might not be big enough. A 45 long/55 would be much better. Then you have to think about what to do with the fry when they appear. You'll need a grow-out tank. Beware this leads to the slippery slope of TBA (tank buying addiction). It's hard to fight off. I still buy tanks, although I have more than my fish room (or I) can handle.

I don't really mind for breeding them my current school just has what looks to be a 20gl lying around so if they dont want It I might be able to say to my mum that they asked me if I wanted it that depends if they don't want it though but for all the time I've been at the school they haven't wanted it. My mum is adamant on me not getting another tank but I might be able to persuade her thank you two lots for your help! If I do get this tank I will put a trio in there for breeding and the others in the community. I'll keep you updated!

 

[Samzter]

I just got a free 20-25g tank from my school! I was going to dedicate it to apistogramma agassizi x3 with a school of pencilfish. You like? It took a lot of persuading for my mum but I did it!!'

 

[Mike Wise]

I like it!

 

[Samzter]

Turns out it cracked, but I got a ten gallon set up... How many do you guys think could live in there? Water changes would be twice a week amd I always have the big tank to turn on. Was thinking 3 in one and 3 in the ten?

 

[Mike Wise]

I don't recommend more than a pair in a 10 - and then remove the male if he is attacked after the pair breed. Apistos are cichlids and like most cichlids are territorial. Why not just get a trio and put one of the females in the larger tank for now. You still have a problem. You'll probably need something larger than a 10 as a grow-out tank for the fry.

 

[Samzter]

I'll see what I can do! The tank looks good! They ordered me a bunch of unsexed ones but I'm picking around 4 females and a male. 3 females to live in the 30g, 1 to live in the ten and the make switches between the two. What I was thinking was letting fry grow in the 10g for a month, then move them to the 30g and IF any survive then I'll move them to my friends house.

 

[Samzter]

Hm, could a pair of A. Panduro live in a 10g?

 

[Mike Wise]

Yes, a bonded pair (one of the few apistos to form breeding bonds) can live in a 10, but not just any male + female. If the 2 don't bond, then 1 will be dead in short order.

 

[Samzter]

So im going on holiday in just over 3 weeks. Would the A. agassizi be okay in a 33g with no water changes for 2 weeks? Heavily planted and feeding would be minimal.

 

[Mike Wise]

My fish were left alone for 4 weeks without water changes and 1-2 feeding/week while in the Amazon. I may have lost new fry, but almost none of the adults/juveniles. I wouldn't worry about fish in a tank like yours. Enjoy your vacation.

 

[Samzter]

**update** tank levels on big tank are: ammonia:0ppm. Nitrite:0ppm nitrate: very minimal traces, a darker yellow than 0 but lighter than 5? Anyways I found a pet shop which will be getting apistogramma agassizi in next Friday or the one after that. Since my nitrate is minimal in the big tank I think I could of accidently broken the cycle. I'll keep an eye on it. For a trio of the A. Agassizi it's £45

 

[Samzter]

The apsitos are here! The guy couldn't sex them but mine appear to be 4m 2f. I know this is totally unbalanced so I was gonna get 3-6 more females and put them in separate tanks and return more males.