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Crenicichla notophthalmu possibly?

Eddiekay1010

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I was able to get a wild group of young Crenicichla, labeled as regani. After watching them a few days, I'm starting to feel they may be notophthalmu, any thoughts? They were supposedly collected from Columbia.
 

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MacZ

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Comparing with the footage from Aquarium Glaser, I think you are right.

 

Eddiekay1010

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Males have extended dorsal lappets? Not sure I could tell a female cf. regani “orinoco” from a female notopthalamus without a male for reference
I'll get a pic of what I believe is a male, the group as a whole is young. This is my first time keeping any Crenicichla, but from what I've read, females have the dorsal occeli and males lack it, is that always the case or can males also have occeli? If so, then I have only 1 male out of 5 fish and at the moment.
 

Eddiekay1010

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Comparing with the footage from Aquarium Glaser, I think you are right.

Thanks
 

MacZ

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Males have extended dorsal lappets? Not sure I could tell a female cf. regani “orinoco” from a female notopthalamus without a male for reference
Which is why the origin location is so important.
from what I've read, females have the dorsal occeli and males lack it, is that always the case or can males also have occeli?
The text I linked emphasizes that it's the other way round and only concerns C. notophthalmus.
 

Mazan

Active Member
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I recently got some from Colombia and I believe they are C. cf notophhthalmus sp "Orinoco". They look just like yours. I will have to try and read that link as I have been assuming the ones wit the ocellus are females. But I think I read that the males of this species do not have the extended dorsal fin rays.
IMG_8688.jpeg
 

Mazan

Active Member
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Here is a paper about Crenicichla species and relationships based on mitochondria DNA analysis. The Orinoco dwarf species is not maned yet but appears to be closest to C. notophthalmus.
.
 

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Apistoguy52

Active Member
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263
I'll get a pic of what I believe is a male, the group as a whole is young. This is my first time keeping any Crenicichla, but from what I've read, females have the dorsal occeli and males lack it, is that always the case or can males also have occeli? If so, then I have only 1 male out of 5 fish and at the moment.
Correct. Occeli = female

notopthalamus from Colombia wouldn’t shock me, but I’d expect notopthalamus to be coming from the Rio Negro.

Cf regani/sp Orinoco dwarf seems more probable
 

Mazan

Active Member
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281
The orinoco dwarf was previously called C. regani "orinoco" now it is known to be closer to C. notophthalmus, but is a separate species, this is from the article I posted, the one in bold appears to be the species we have:

The type of C. notophthalmus is from the Rio Negro by Manaus and is in our analyses clearly delimited as a distinct species. Undescribed populations from the Orinoco basin, referred to as either C. cf. notophthalmus or C. sp. Orinoco in the cichlid hobby literature are in our analyses composed of highly divergent clades, distinct from the nominal C. notophthalmus and delimited as at least three distinct allopatric species C. cf. notophthalmus Orinoco I (Ventuari), C. cf. notophthalmus Orinoco II (Inirida/Colombia), and C. cf. notophthalmus Caroní. The divergence between the nominotypical C. notophthalmus and C. cf.notophthalmus in the Orinoco basin is fully 10.0 Ma and within the here analyzed C. cf. notophthalmus in the Orinoco basin ranges between 3.4 to 5.9 My based on our calibration (Fig. 3) demonstrating long isolation between the allopatric species sensu stricto.
 

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