Sphagnum moss

[raymond82]

Hi all,

Inspired by this thread I went to buy every available peat product I could find in the local garden center. I found three types and constructed this dropping setup to test the effects on my tap water:

All three types lowered the pH to ~4.5, but the Sphagnum moss also lowered the ppm to 126. So, from my tap water which is 220 ppm, pH 8 and KH 8, dripping the water over the Sphagnum moss resulted in 126 ppm, pH 4.5 and KH 0.

I'm pretty impressed with this result, but is it suitable to use in an aquarium? I read that most people use Sphagnum PEAT moss, is there a reason not to use Sphagnum moss?

Thank you!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I read that most people use Sphagnum PEAT moss, is there a reason not to use Sphagnum moss?

No, none at all. It is the cell structure of the sphagnum moss that give peat its CEC.

Have a look at these threads for the explanation of why sphagnum lowered the TDS as well as the dKH.

<http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/showthread.php?11247-Another-Peat-Filtration-Question> & <http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/showthread.php?11214-Looking-to-lower-pH-Seachem-Discus-Buffer&p=61157#post61157>

cheers Darrel

 

[tjudy]

I use the long-fiber sphagnum moss a lot.

 

[slimbolen99]

Yours is a lot cleaner than mine, I'll give you that!

Can you send a bigger picture? I can't make it out on the forum, but would like to see what you're using a little more close up. Maybe also a picture of the bags of moss that you attempted?

 

[raymond82]

Have a look at these threads for the explanation of why sphagnum lowered the TDS as well as the dKH.

Thank you very much, these are really informative threads! The book chapter on "Freshwater Ecosystems" is also really interesting. The only thing I don't understand is how the ppm TDS can be lowered when Ca+ and Mg+ are exchanged for H+, I understood from these posts that this wouldn't affect the TDS much.


Here's a bigger picture if the setup:

The setup is just for testing, it's just a small bucket with tap water dripping in three different types of peat. It was inspired by your (Slimbolen99) setup, mainly cause I wanted the water to drip through slowly. It's 1 liter bottles and this setup yielded half a liter per bottle in an evening. I wanted to discuss the results on the forum first, now I'm gonna build a new setup with higher yield.

These are the two types of peat:

Effect: pH from 8 to 4.5, ppm TDS from 220 to 162

second:

Effect: pH from 8 to 4.5, ppm from 220 to 269. So this type actually increased the ppm, that's something I don't really understand...

The third one is the Sphagnum moss I described earlier, it is green, has long-fibers and is moist.

I actually pushed it a little farther, I took some wastewater from the R/O machine we have at work and dripped it through the sphagnum moss. The ppm TDS decreased from 440 to 200! Given that a lot of other fish we have (guppies etc.) are in normal tap water (ppm 220), does this mean that filtering the waste water of an R/O system through the Sphagnum moss would make it usable again for aquariums?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The only thing I don't understand is how the ppm TDS can be lowered when Ca+ and Mg+ are exchanged for H+

It is exactly that, the Ca2+ ions raise dGH and TDS, but H+ ions don't. Water is H+ and OH- ions (really 2H2O ~ OH− + H3O+) and an electrical insulator, as soon as you add salts (like Ca2+) the electrical conductivity rises. TDS meters actually measure conductivity, this because you need to evaporate a known volume water and weigh the residue to get a true TDS reading.

Peats
The first peat is a "lightly decomposed peat", this means it is from the upper layers of a bog and will be lightly decomposed sphagnum, the CEC of this peat will still lie largely in the intact hyaline cells of the dead moss. As the bog grows it would naturally form a raised bog or "ombrotrophic mire" which is entirely rain fed and composed 99% of sphagnum.

Nearly all of these raised bogs have been drained and exploited for agriculture, horticulture or peats for burning. A little bit still exists in the Netherlands, in Drenthe, E. of Emmen and close to the German border nr. to the "Veen museum" at Barger compascuum.

The second peat is a dark peat from the lower layers of the bog, this no longer has nay intact cells and may incorporate Sedges (Carex spp) and Cotton Grass (Eriophorum spp.), these peats will have formed when the bog was flushed with more base rich water. These type of bogs are called "fens" and the peat may have a high pH, if the water was base rich. The conductivity rise is soluble salts being released by the peat back to the water (what ions are exchanged will depend upon both their concentration and the "lyotropic series"). Because the pH went down, more acids than bases were released (weak acids raise conductivity, but lower pH).

The third one is the Sphagnum moss I described earlier, it is green, has long-fibers and is moist. I actually pushed it a little farther, I took some wastewater from the R/O machine we have at work and dripped it through the sphagnum moss. The ppm TDS decreased from 440 to 200! Given that a lot of other fish we have (guppies etc.) are in normal tap water (ppm 220), does this mean that filtering the waste water of an R/O system through the Sphagnum moss would make it usable again for aquariums?

It does, but the exchange sites on the moss would soon be filled, and ions will then be exchanged back into solution, so it will only work for a short time, unless you keep replacing the sphagnum.

cheers Darrel

 

[raymond82]

Darrel, thanks you very much for a very nice answer! I wanted to upload new pictures of the bags of peat, you must have had a hard time reading them, my apologies...

This peat is really fascinating stuff, considering that it works like a DI resin but is a completely natural product. It's also very interesting to read about the formation, I have some relatives living in Drenthe and maybe I should go to visit them and collect some wild peat.

It's good to know now which peat is what, I think I'll stick to using the lightly decomposed peat and the Sphagnum moss. And when I buy an osmosis apparatus, I will definitely experiment with using the moss to filter and reuse some of the waste water.

Tonight I'm gonna set up something bigger to be able to run a bucket of water every day. I'll post some pictures and results as soon as it's done.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

considering that it works like a DI resin but is a completely natural product.

That is exactly it, it is the combination of the high CEC and the exchange sites all being filled with H+ ions. It is not unique to sphagnum peat, you get a similar effect with the "Akadama" aquarists use as a planting substrate, in this case it is a clay where the exchange sites are all filled with H+ ions. I assume this is because it comes from somewhere in Japan with acidic rocks and high rainfall.

I have some relatives living in Drenthe and maybe I should go to visit them and collect some wild peat.

I think most peat bogs will be nature reserves, so that isn't an option. I tried growing my own for a while in trays of rain-water, but it is a very slow grower.

cheers Darrel

 

[raymond82]

you get a similar effect with the "Akadama"

That's very interesting, my girlfriend has been looking for Akadama for her killies for a while now but she can't really find it. The closest we got is special substrate for shrimp but it's pretty expensive. Considering this I guess she might as well use Sphagnum moss in stead.

My new Sphagnum setup wasn't as efficient as the smaller one:
ppm TDS: 200 to 125,
pH: 8 to 6
KH: 8 to 3

I guess a lot of the effect depends on the speed at which the water drips through so I will try to reduce that. I also put some loose moss in a container with water but so far it didn't do anything to the ppm. I guess I have to keep experimenting, the first results I got (pH 4.5, KH 0) were very promising...

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

That's very interesting, my girlfriend has been looking for Akadama for her killies for a while now but she can't really find it.

I think there may be problems since the Japanese Tsunami. You can use Danish "Moler clay" based media, they sell it in the UK for mopping up spillages, or you can buy it as cat litter, but you need to rinse the scent out of them. The brand in the UK is "Tesco lightweight non-clumping cat litter", but I'm sure there will be a Moler clay based cat litter media available (it is diatomite and clay).

A lot of people use peat/sphagnum for their killifishes as a spawning substrate.

cheers Darrel

 

[raymond82]

Cat litter, that's peculiar! If you hadn't told me I would have never considered. I did another search for Akadama and now I did find it, on a website for Bonsai growers. We will order it soon.

While the Sphagnum moss was very effective with the small sample, I'm having difficulty with filtering on a larger scale. Initially water comes out with a pH of 4-5 and a KH of 0, but after leaving it for a while both the KH and the pH move up (to 3 and 7, respectively). Any idea what could cause this?