Microgeophagus altispinosa - sex determination

[frodejo]

Hi.
Are there any good ways to determine the sex of this dwarf? I have six of them, and I think all of them are males. The biggest have elongated caudal fin tips, and the rest also starts to show this trait. Is this a trait that is only found in males?

 

[Neil]

frodejo,

Is this a trait that is only found in males?

Females kind of get that too! These are really tough to sex. The males will stay a little more elongate than females and the fins might be a touch more filamented, but it is kind of a crapshoot until the show breeding behavior. Don't give up on the sexing of these guys yet. You may have females in your batch.
You can try a search for Bolivian rams or Microgeophagus altispinosa here. I bet you will find a ton of info.
Neil

 

[frodejo]

Thats what I thought (or hoped). I will give them some more time, and hopefully I can get a pair.

Frode

 

[mk_ultra]

I work at a fish shop and I had a breeder come in to buy some. He told me that most female Rams ( of any strain) get a rosy color on the side. I imagine this may be spawning coloers like checkerboard cichlid females get in the fins. The first I heard about this. I have always thought only about the dorsal fin method.
But he said this is his method and has yielded him many fish.

 

[Neil]

He told me that most female Rams ( of any strain) get a rosy color on the side.

That is certainly true of ramerizi, but I have not noticed it in altispinosa.
Neil

 

[joopsg]

Bolivian Rams

Well, i just have managed to get a pair from one of the LFS in SG that deal with wild fishes.
Well, I noticed something abt the female.
The female will have its breeding tube protuding.
The male will only protrude it during breeding.

The male orangey patch will be bright when they spawn.

 

[Jennifer J]

Butterfly Ram

Can someone tell me what family my Butterfly Rams come from? I only see info on Bolivian, Blue and German.....

One of my rams is hanging out right below the heater, although the temperature of the water is 28.3 C.....is this normal or should I be concerned?

Also, the seem very sculpin-like in the sense that they sit on the bottom...is this normal too? Bear with me, this is my first tank and I had never heard of Rams until I started deciding what I wanted.

 

[Jayhawk]

Neil - I've heard from several others that females can get the filaments on the caudal fin, too, but my established pair are more "traditional", I guess, with only the male showing that trait.

Are there regional differences? Species/subspecies differences (I see on the site that there are quite a few Microgeophagus species).

Eric

 

[Mike Wise]

Can someone tell me what family my Butterfly Rams come from? I only see info on Bolivian, Blue and German.....

Jennifer,

Rams belong in the family Cichlidae (cichlids). I imagine that you know this & actually want to know the genus to which they belong. This is not exactly settled. Your 'Rainbow' Rams are a domestic strain of the wild blue Ram. Check for references under the following names:

Apistogramma ramirezi
Pseudoapistogramma ramirezi
Pseucogeophagus ramirezi
Papiliochromis ramirezi
Microgeophagus ramirezi
Mikrogeophagus ramirezi

One of my rams is hanging out right below the heater, although the temperature of the water is 28.3 C.....is this normal or should I be concerned?

Your temperature should be fine, but 30ºC would be better. I think that your Ram is trying to hide for the others. Rams, being cichlids, are territorial. If one cannot establish a territory, it will be driven out of the territories formed by the other Rams. You will need to either remove the Ram or redecorate the aquarium so that each fish can form a territory with visible boundaries (rocks, plants, etc.). You do not say how large your aquarium is, but each Ram should have a 30 x 30 cm area for a territory, if possible.

Also, the seem very sculpin-like in the sense that they sit on the bottom...is this normal too?

Most cichlids are bottom dwellers. Rams rarely use any part of the tank about 15 - 20 cm above bottom. The belly, however, rarely touches the bottom, as in sculpins. If they drag their bellies on the sand, then there could be a problem with the fish. Commercially bred fish have a history of being very delicate. There are many web sites that discuss this fish. I strongly recommend that you read some of these.

 

[Mike Wise]

Neil - I've heard from several others that females can get the filaments on the caudal fin, too, but my established pair are more "traditional", I guess, with only the male showing that trait.

Are there regional differences? Species/subspecies differences (I see on the site that there are quite a few Microgeophagus species).

Eric,

Caudal fin extensions are typical on both sexes of this fish. The males do have longer extensions. Your female's tips may be an anomaly (not a defect) or may just be lost due to wear & tear.

There are presently only 3 known species of Rams - M. ramirezi (Orinoco Ram), M. altispinosus (Bolivian Ram) & the Zweifleck/Two-Patch or Pindaituba Ram, which is still scientifically undescribed. All other "species" are merely domestic strains of these 3 species.

 

[Jennifer J]

Thanks Neil. I'll check out some websites. My Butterfly Ram that was sitting on the bottom has died. That leaves me with one out of the three I started with - very upsetting. Although my water is in perfect condition, I'm told that these are just very sensitive fish (especially "farmed" ones like I have/had). Is there something I can do to try to improve my conditions for my rammy? Also, from reading your response, wild specimans would be better than the "farmed" version....maybe I should try again.

 

[Microgeophagus]

I'm told that these are just very sensitive fish (especially "farmed" ones like I have/had).

Be wary and keep a close eye out. I've been keeping these little guys exclusively for a while and I find them to actually quite hardy. I had 2 live through an abrupt trite spike that left a couple of apistos to the fish gods in what I had thought to be a cycled tank. You may be confused with microgeophagus ramirezi (blue ram) as far as sensitivity is concerned. Then again, you may just have a fickle strain. Test your tank and do a partial water change. I'm one of those take no chances folk, as soon as something is wrong I do a water change. If it still seems wrong the next day I start treating with aquarisol and melafix. Good Luck

 

[Chris(wildcaught!)]

Jennifer, I say that wild caught Mikrogeophagus ramirezi is much harder to keep than "farmed" ones.

However this might depend much on the origin of your rams. My breed ones are from good quality stock,from a local breeder. But i know that Asia imported fish might be troublesome. (BTW, I live in Sweden, Europe).

The wild caught specimens,imho, needs an experienced caretaker. I would not buy wild caught rams if I was new to the hobby. Better to find some good domestic ones.

Regards / Chris

 

[Microgeophagus]

My experience on sexing these guys goes like this: I have no Idea. currently I have 5 of the little buggers in my 29 and I am praying for a pair so I can downsize to 2. I have been keeping these guys for about 4 mos. I added them to the tank one at a time (bad idea for pairing), but then I moved so I reintroduced all of them into a newly renovated tank. Now I have them varying from adolescent to adult with the hardass of the lot being the smallest (napoleon). Good luck and I will post any discoveries that I may stumble upon. I don't think there really is an accurate way to sex them until they breed. I've heard so many theorys on caudal fin this and dorsal fin that, it's not concrete, don't trust anything but experience. my advice is to get six juveniles throw them all into the tank at once and wait a few months. the one that lays the eggs is the female lol.