Low-tech fishroom - comments ?

[jerseyjay]

Here is my future "low-tech" fish room which will in the future hold various Lake Malawi/Tanganyika cichlids, West africans, South American dwarfs.

Specs:

Room (10' x 10') is on the second floor so keep in mind that weight is a huge factor. Total volume will be ~125G but distributed over 8feet by 2feet area to eliminate pressure points.

Tanks
- 3 x 20G
- 5 x 10G
- 6 x 2.5G
- 1 x 55G (w/ adult africans) (not included on the rack)

Light
- 2 x 48 NO T12 single strip above 10G
- 2 x 48 NO T12 double strips above 20G
- DIY above 2.5G (not sure yet)

Heat
- Leaning toward heating entire room with one heater to avoid buying 14 separate heaters.

Filtration
- Not going with centralized system b/c:
1. Fish from different areas (PH/KH)
2. Want to keep low-tech w/o too many gadgets (weight !!!)

- HOB on 20G (AC200)
- not sure about 2.5G and 10G (want to have as much in-tank room as possible)

Fish to come:
- Latecara sp.
- Apistogramma sp.
- various Killies
- Kribs
- Julis
- small Malawi cichlids
- etc. (still thinking)

Questions:

1. Individual heaters or one for entire room w/ 14 tanks (10' x 10') :idea:

2. Sponges for 2.5G and 10G or HOB :idea: . I could avoid building PVC, extra air tubing, air pump but then HOB cables and electricity bill !!!!

Some of you will automatically say that 10G are too small even for dwarfs but I know it could be done if proper conditions are kept. I just need to satisfy my breeding hunger and start planning for my "big" fishroom down the road.

Please provide comments. Thanks

PS. Randall, I hope I can finally share my plant knowledge and I hope you can share your knowledge about dwarf cichlids at the next meeting :wink:

 

[M0oN]

I would suggest just using a few ballasts hanging in the room rather then individual lights for each tank, they're not needed unless you're growing plants and fish will actually breed more readily in darker conditions.

As far as heat goes, if you're going to plumb all or most of the tanks into a central system you could heat the water that way, otherwise I would insulate the tanks with foam on the bottom and insulation foam (the thin stuff you buy at Home Depot) double wrapped around the sides and backs of the tank, then just keep the room heated...

If you plan on breeding fish definately go with sponge filters, not to mention they're a lot cheaper and you could run a whole bunch of em' off one decent sized air compressor.

If you plan on having planted tanks then just use a decent canister or HOB filter onthose specific tanks to keep the flow rate good...

Sponge filters take up next to nothing in room, especially if you buy the premade ones that don't actually sit on the bottom of the tank, items suspended in water take up less volume, I forget exactly how it works, but I could probably dig up the scientific information to back it up somewhere.

Just my two cents...

 

[jerseyjay]

I would suggest just using a few ballasts hanging in the room rather then individual lights for each tank, they're not needed unless you're growing plants and fish will actually breed more readily in darker conditions.

I thought about that. My main interest are planted tanks (see my website !!) so this was a future benefit if any plants were introduced. I could decrease double strip to single. If too much light, I could always turn one of the strips off.

As far as heat goes, if you're going to plumb all or most of the tanks into a central system you could heat the water that way

Central system is not an option.

otherwise I would insulate the tanks with foam on the bottom and insulation foam (the thin stuff you buy at Home Depot) double wrapped around the sides and backs of the tank, then just keep the room heated...

Hmmm. Don't you think that keeping room heated w/ 14 bare tanks vs. room heated w/ 14 insulated tanks would be almost the same situation. I guess visual look of the tanks is also a factor.

If you plan on breeding fish definately go with sponge filters, not to mention they're a lot cheaper and you could run a whole bunch of em' off one decent sized air compressor.

Yep. This was my initial choice. Rena 400 was my pick. Should be sufficient enough for 14 tanks and quiet as well.

Sponge filters take up next to nothing in room, especially if you buy the premade ones that don't actually sit on the bottom of the tank, items suspended in water take up less volume, I forget exactly how it works, but I could probably dig up the scientific information to back it up somewhere.

You mean Hydro sponges ?

What about 2.5G ?. Not much room there for any sponges or I'm underestimating.

Thanks

 

[M0oN]

I would suggest just using a few ballasts hanging in the room rather then individual lights for each tank, they're not needed unless you're growing plants and fish will actually breed more readily in darker conditions.

I thought about that. My main interest are planted tanks (see my website !!) so this was a future benefit if any plants were introduced. I could decrease double strip to single. If too much light, I could always turn one of the strips off.

As far as heat goes, if you're going to plumb all or most of the tanks into a central system you could heat the water that way

Central system is not an option.

otherwise I would insulate the tanks with foam on the bottom and insulation foam (the thin stuff you buy at Home Depot) double wrapped around the sides and backs of the tank, then just keep the room heated...

Hmmm. Don't you think that keeping room heated w/ 14 bare tanks vs. room heated w/ 14 insulated tanks would be almost the same situation. I guess visual look of the tanks is also a factor.

If you plan on breeding fish definately go with sponge filters, not to mention they're a lot cheaper and you could run a whole bunch of em' off one decent sized air compressor.

Yep. This was my initial choice. Rena 400 was my pick. Should be sufficient enough for 14 tanks and quiet as well.

Sponge filters take up next to nothing in room, especially if you buy the premade ones that don't actually sit on the bottom of the tank, items suspended in water take up less volume, I forget exactly how it works, but I could probably dig up the scientific information to back it up somewhere.

You mean Hydro sponges ?

What about 2.5G ?. Not much room there for any sponges or I'm underestimating.

Thanks

Jay, insulating the tanks would just be an extra precaution to keep the fish warmed up, it's not really necessary (insulating the entire room would be more cost efficient), I'm just picky about things like that.

If I were you I would just get a single ballast that goes the length of whatever my stand is (goes over all 10 gallon tanks) and use that for a source of light rather then buying individual ballasts for each tank (I don't know if this is what you planned on doing in the first place or not?)

Hydro sponges are a lot smaller then you might think, here's a link to just about every model I know of, the ones designed for smaller tanks are incredibly itty bitty...

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/NavResults.cfm?Ne=40000&N=2004+113425

The dual action foam corner filters would be for small tanks (the yellow ones)

Also, rather then a rena I would suggest going with a larger more powerful pump, because inevitably you're going to be getting more tanks in this room, I don't care if you think you aren't...it'll happen...and you'll save yourself some money in the process, not to mention the pumps listed below are heavy duty and will probably last you a life time...

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...;Ne=3&R=12144&Nao=0&N=2004+113590

It is definately going to be louder then other air pumps, though, so if that's an issue then scratch it I guess...fish rooms in general are noisy, especially with foam filters...

Another one, more costly but also can handle a lot more tanks -
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...;Ne=3&R=12140&Nao=0&N=2004+113590

 

[Zapisto]

Sponge filters take up next to nothing in room, especially if you buy the premade ones that don't actually sit on the bottom of the tank, items suspended in water take up less volume, I forget exactly how it works, but I could probably dig up the scientific information to back it up somewhere.

You mean Hydro sponges ?

What about 2.5G ?. Not much room there for any sponges or I'm underestimating.

Thanks

Use corner box filter

it is what i use in my 3.5g killie tanks

 

[M0oN]

Sponge filters take up next to nothing in room, especially if you buy the premade ones that don't actually sit on the bottom of the tank, items suspended in water take up less volume, I forget exactly how it works, but I could probably dig up the scientific information to back it up somewhere.

You mean Hydro sponges ?

What about 2.5G ?. Not much room there for any sponges or I'm underestimating.

Thanks

Use corner box filter

it is what i use in my 3.5g killie tanks

Problem is he wants to take up as little room as possible, hydro sponges are the way to go, realy.

They're what I use in my discus breeding tanks as well as my 10 gallons for rearing apisto fry...

 

[jerseyjay]

If I were you I would just get a single ballast that goes the length of whatever my stand is (goes over all 10 gallon tanks) and use that for a source of light rather then buying individual ballasts for each tank

Good point. Less balasts --> smaller electricity bill. Rack will be 8ft long so I could invest in 1 long ~72" strip (I think its next step above 4ft standard strips).

Hydro sponges are a lot smaller then you might think, here's a link to just about every model I know of, the ones designed for smaller tanks are incredibly itty bitty

I planned on using Jemhco (close to my house) for sponges.
- http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FILTRATION/Hydro-Sponge_Filters/hydro-sponge_filters.html

Also, rather then a rena I would suggest going with a larger more powerful pump, because inevitably you're going to be getting more tanks in this room, I don't care if you think you aren't...it'll happen...

Belive it or not, I could say NO .

Noise is a huge factor as well so I don't know if I want to invest in piston pump. I highly doubt that I will invest in more tanks. Room is not big enough plus its on the 2nd floor so I CAN NOT have too many tanks or else I will end up downstairs.

I'm just wondering if Rena 400 ($40) will be powerful enough.

Thanks

 

[M0oN]

If I were you I would just get a single ballast that goes the length of whatever my stand is (goes over all 10 gallon tanks) and use that for a source of light rather then buying individual ballasts for each tank

Good point. Less balasts --> smaller electricity bill. Rack will be 8ft long so I could invest in 1 long ~72" strip (I think its next step above 4ft standard strips).

Hydro sponges are a lot smaller then you might think, here's a link to just about every model I know of, the ones designed for smaller tanks are incredibly itty bitty

I planned on using Jemhco (close to my house) for sponges.
- http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FILTRATION/Hydro-Sponge_Filters/hydro-sponge_filters.html

Also, rather then a rena I would suggest going with a larger more powerful pump, because inevitably you're going to be getting more tanks in this room, I don't care if you think you aren't...it'll happen...

Belive it or not, I could say NO .

Noise is a huge factor as well so I don't know if I want to invest in piston pump. I highly doubt that I will invest in more tanks. Room is not big enough plus its on the 2nd floor so I CAN NOT have too many tanks or else I will end up downstairs.

I'm just wondering if Rena 400 ($40) will be powerful enough.

Thanks

Well if you're looking for a quiet powerful air pump I'd go with a TetraTec Deep Water Pump or AirWhist if you're really relaly looking for utter silence...AirWhist are slightly more expensive then others but they're dead quiet, I'd say two or 3 of the 1000 models would be plenty...the problem isn't that you've got too much water for them to handle, the problem is all of the seperate tanks are going to require their own air supplies and pumps have trouble after seperating about 5 or 6 different routes for air to go to...

 

[fishboy20]

The smaller Hydro sponge filters should be small enough for any of the tanks you are doing and even the 2.5 gallon tanks. The fish like to hangout underneath them a lot of times. So I find it serves a two in one purpose. Plus there should still be enough room for plants in there. Obviously there isn't going to be a lot of room anyways.
I agree that if you are going to heat the actual room, insulating the room would be best. Anywhere there could be heat lose needs to be insulated, including around the door and any windows. A 10' by 10' room shouldn't be too difficult to do. Remember that the room itself will need to be heated to about 78-80 degrees with the tank temperatures being around 75-78.
Which tanks are going to be for the killifish? The 2.5 gallon tanks? Wouldn't it be better for those to be on the bottom where it is cooler? Killies usually like cooler temps from what I remember, I know it's just a diagram of what you are thinking about doing. Who knows, maybe you are planning on having Blue Gularis (which reach up to 6in.) in the twentys or a number of other larger species.
I know with my fishroom now that I still do not have enough room for what I am doing. I have now focused on Apistos since having killifish and discus as well. I also have some Geophagus that will need to be moved soon. Then the 20 tanks will be devoted entirely to Apistos. and the breeding of them. But it could work if you get two species of all the fish you listed above. There just won't be much room for raising fry. You may want to focus on a fewer species of fish if you intend on breeding a lot of fish. I would mainly use the 2.5 and 10 gallons for breeding and the 20 gallons for raising the fry up.
I would think some larger air pumps could do the trick if you use 4way valves on some of them to spilt air between the tanks. Maybe get one air pump for each shelf and spilt it from there. Hope these ideas can help.

 

[jerseyjay]

I would think some larger air pumps could do the trick if you use 4way valves on some of them to spilt air between the tanks. Maybe get one air pump for each shelf and spilt it from there. Hope these ideas can help.

I don't think I mentioned that but I want to install PVC pipe with individual air valves.

 

[tjudy]

Personally, I think that you should think about larger tanks. Consider the 24" and 48" tanks on 20 inch deep racks.

With racks that are 8 feet long (fit on your ten foot wall) with a depth of 20 inches, you can be more creative. Each shelf can hold two 48" tanks or four 24" tanks. There are many tanks to choose from in those lengths. The 20" depth will let you set six ten gallon tanks on a shelf looking in from the ends. This is agreat fry set up.

I like sponges. HOB is great for larger tanks and growout tanks, but the sponges provide a fantastic food source for fry.

 

[jerseyjay]

Personally, I think that you should think about larger tanks. Consider the 24" and 48" tanks on 20 inch deep racks.

With racks that are 8 feet long (fit on your ten foot wall) with a depth of 20 inches, you can be more creative. Each shelf can hold two 48" tanks or four 24" tanks. There are many tanks to choose from in those lengths. The 20" depth will let you set six ten gallon tanks on a shelf looking in from the ends. This is agreat fry set up.

Thanks for feedback Ted.

Let me mention that again. This fishroom is not your typical breeding setup with commercial purposes. Fishroom will be setup on the 2nd floor and I'm trying to have less then 150G of total volume. I was thinking about 40G breeders but I rather have more tanks if I want to play with soft water and hard water (SA vs.Tanganyika). I thought about setting up 10G short-side but I want to enjoy my fish and be able to look at the entire setup.

I guess I could invest in 20H and have 4 of them on the bottom instead of 3 x 20L.

I also thought about replacing 2.5G and placing 6 x 5.5G.

Opinions ??

 

[cootwarm]

Hi Jay,

I agree with Ted. Go for the larger tanks. I would do the 10 gallons tanks across the top and 20 gallon tanks on the other 2 shelves. If you can stretch your 8 foot rack to 8.5 feet, you could fit two 30 gallon long and one 20 gallon high on each of the lower 2 shelves.

If you're worried about too much weight on the second floor. I have the same problem and I have most of my tanks upstairs. I just have them spread out some. Here is a few things to consider.

One gallon of water weighs a little under 9 pounds, so for speed of calcualtion I round it up to 10 pounds. So 100 gallons is 1,000 pounds and 1,000 pounds is the equivenant of five 200 pound persons. :wink: Not very scientific, but it works for doing quick estimates in your head.

Also consider the scructure of the building. What direction do the floor joyces run? For addition support, if possible, run your long rack across the joyces instead of the same direction where all the weight is supported by just 1 or 2 joyces. Consider where the walls are located downstairs. Some walls may offer more support than others. Also determine where the main support beam is located.

If you situate your tanks over these supports you shouldn't have to worry too much about weight. The best location would probably be along an outside wall where the rack will run across the direction of the floor supports (joyces). Here it will be supported by a sturdy outside wall and the weight distributed across 5 or 6 floor supports.

BTW, I built a rack for my 55 gallon so it holds two 20 gallons above.

Michael

 

[jerseyjay]

OK.

I decided to upgrade this setup initially to avoid dissapointment later on.

Tanks:

Bottom shelf - 2 x 30G breeders + 1 x 10G for BBS (instead of 3 x 20L)

Middle shelf - 5 x 10G (1 short-side)

Top shelf - 5 x 5 1/2 G + 1 x 2.5 G (instead of 6 x 2.5 G)

Questions:

1. What do you guys think about volume upgrade ?

2. Where can I get the best deal on those tanks ?. Check prices online ?

Thanks

 

[fishboy20]

Where are you located at? Then the forum can let you know where the best deals are. I think an upgrade is always good. The more water the better:~)

 

[jerseyjay]

Where are you located at? Then the forum can let you know where the best deals are. I think an upgrade is always good. The more water the better:~)

New Jersey

 

[Randall]

Jay's Rack System

Dear Jay,

Perhaps most of what I have to contribute has already been said.

I like the idea of using one ballast to illuminate multiple tanks. This is good for planted tanks and is cost efficient. Justin Hau, a retailer in San Fransisco uses this kind of lighting on nearly every tank in his shop and grows plants like crazy.

Given what you propose to do, Hydro-Sponge filters sound very good to me. These filters are good, fairly inexpensive and easy to clean/maintain. Perhaps consulting with a retailer concerning which air pump to use is a good idea. Adam Zweig in Chester, NJ, has experience with them and might be a good person to contact.

For the 2.5-gallon tanks, either a small Hydro-Sponge or box filter should be fine. Unless you're planning on working with a lot of killie fish, I'd forego this sized tank and use something larger. For killie fish, however, many specialists use 2.5-gallon tanks, Larry Jinks included.

For heat, I like the idea of simply heating the room versus investing in a lot of heaters. Should you decide to use individual heaters, however, Adam Zweig is a good person to contact.

Great idea; good luck with it!

All the best,

Randall Kohn

 

[jerseyjay]

Jay's Rack System

Adam Zweig in Chester, NJ might be a good person to contact.

Randall,

Do you mean Adam's Pet Safari ?

Tom Gillooly is really good friends with Adam. Well, If I mention yours and Tom's name, I should be fine.

We have BOD meeting on March 5th in Larry Jinks house, so I hope to get some ideas from him as well.

Thanks and I will see you at the next meeting.

 

[Randall]

Jay's Rack System

Do you mean Adam's Pet Safari ?

Yes, Jay, the very one!

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[Neil]

Jay,

I like your set up a great deal and think that you have alot of possibilities there. As far as filters taking up too much room, I too have wrestled with that problem. I usually use a standard foam filter and make a cave out of it. Not necessarily for breeding, but just part of the structure of the tank. The fish have used them for breeding many times though! I either find 2 long, thin, flat river rocks (3"x1"x1") and space them 2" to 3" parallel to each other. I then set the filter on top. If it is all the way against the back glass, there is only one entrance. Instant cave! I also have used 1/2 to 3/4 inch PVC pieces as the walls. 3 instant caves! I also use a filter sitting on the ground and lean the edge of a flat piece of wood or rock against it. Many ideas to use for space saving utilities are out there. The main thing is to think of the filter as another piece of structure to use in the tank. Believe me, the fish won't see it as a filter. They will think of it as a good hiding place or breeding site.

Neil