beginner Apisto advice

[Daybed]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to this forum and new to apistos. I've got a pair of blue rams and bolivians, and want a change of pace with apistos. For the most part, I've been reading through every thread that I've found interesting and bookmarking for future reference.

I currently have a 29g that's moderately planted with the blue rams, two different tetras, and pygmy cories. Last night I just got a 20g long and it's got the two bolivians in it, along with a brand new sponge being seeded by a mature sponge. I've also got a 20g high and two 10g empty & laying around.

I'm hoping to keep apistos not for any substantial profit but instead so I can successfully keep a nice fish that will easily spawn in the right conditions. I want the challenge of raising a pair of apistos together along with fry and to keep that cycle going so I don't have to buy new fish every now and then.

At this point I've narrowed down my choice to either Cacatuoides or Macmasteri. I've read some really great things about the Cacatuoides, but the only place I can get them is online. No one here in Sac sells them except one shop that has just a single raggedly looking pair for forty bucks. I'm sure I can get better specimens online for the same price, shipping included, if not cheaper.

On the other hand, the Macmasteri because in San Francisco (where I used to live) a shop had a few generations of this one apisto for sale for 30 bucks a pair.

I wanted to go for availability first off. But if I'm going to have to buy online, then I'd want to go with a great track record of both looks and tendency to spawn, hence the cacatuoides. I figure I could get one now and get the other later after my experience gets better.

Other than that, I know the tank should be well planted with many nooks and crannies to hide. Is my 20g long good enough for a pair? Or is even a 10g enough for a pair? Also, I'm trying to find an inexpensive way to aquascape the tank since money doesn't go too far with plants, driftwood, & rocks, plus I have the 29g to worry about. I even thought of taking rocks from outside the house if need be.



Sorry for the long post! I greatful if anyone made it this far....


Dave

 

[nightowl1350]

Apistos are very active and great to look as (same as the blue rams) If you can keep blue rams you should have no problems with Apisto C. (I have both as well) the apisto like lower temps than the blue rams, so don't mix them. I have had a pair in a 10 g, but if you have a larger one use it.
Rock from outside are fine, but make sure you bleach them, then let them sit in dechlor water (add a bit extra) If they are lime or other types check they don't alter your ph.

 

[Daybed]

hmmm, I guess I could just use a 10g as a grow out tank later on huh? I have the feeling that it doesn't matter which one I get-Macmasteri or Cacatuoides-just as long as I get one to start off with. Ah, choices choices!

So, let me understand this, I should bleach the rocks for a while and then let them sit in dechlorinated water for...how long?

Thanks Nightowl!

Dave

 

[lab]

Bleaching rocks seems like overkill to me. I would just wash them thouroughly in pure water and at the most pour boiling water over them.

all the best,
Lars

 

[Fatts]

I just boil my rocks. Then I let them sit in RO/DI water for about a week so that I can be sure that nothing is leaching out

 

[Daybed]

I guess the one concern is what to boil the rocks in. Because in the event where there are chemicals, won't those contaminate the cookware to a certain yet minimal extent? Do you guys use your regular cookware to boil rocks or something else? At the moment I just have the rocks around the house to choose from, they're ground cover type, round, not much bigger than my fist.

Now, I know many people advise a heavily planted/scaped tank to break the line of sight. What usually happens if the tank lacks this? One fish will kill the other?


Thanks guys!

Dave

 

[Fatts]

I use the wife's cookware, just wait until she is outta the house

I have been playing with breaking up the line of sight in 2 of my tanks. In one tank with an open line of sight the sub male stays hidden, as soon as I break up the line of sight he takes to the smaller territory.

In the other tank, it is the females that play games, open line of sight the non-breeding one hides. Broken into 3 territories both females spawn at the same time and the sub male takes up the third territory.

I have been keeping a close eye on these 2 tanks, whenever there seems to be heavy aggression on a particular fish I make changes. I assume that without the changes the "picked on" fish would be killed everytime as the aggression gets pretty intense.

 

[Daybed]

Hah! That's what I would do, but we're not married yet and we live with her brother, so it's his cookware. Maybe I'll try it when they're not home?:wink:

What size are those two tanks, Fatts? I have a feeling my 20 long isn't big enough for more than a pair, huh? let alone a 10g. How does the agression get intense with a single pair? I can see how the struggle for dominance between two or more males may arise, but does this happen amongst the females as well?

Dave

 

[Fatts]

Actually one of the tanks is a 20 long. The center of that tank has about 3 small pieces of diftwood and 3 clay pots, that is what is breaking it into 2 territories. This tank normally only houses a trio but I wanted to see how 2 pair would do in it. So far it has not proven to me that you "can't" house 2 pair in it, but I was much happier with the trio in there. The females were just more fun to watch controlling the 2 territories. The dominate male will be moving out this weekend, I wantta see what will happen then, will the dom female take over or will the sub male "grow a pair"

The other tank is a 55. That is that one that I do not have to keep as close an eye on. There is lots of room to escape it that tank.

 

[Daybed]

Scott, what sorts of plants do you have in that 20 long? It seems like the only plants that can go in a 20 long or a 10 are foreground plants since it's so short. Either that or slow growing plants. I've tried pulling a couple plants from my show 29g, hopefully they'll settle quite nicely in the 20 long.

I guess the only problem now is finding a breeder. There's aquabid, but shipping adds a lot to the cost of the fishes. I emailed Neil but hasn't gotten back to me yet. I'm assuming there isn't any stock since the 'price list' part says so. Would have been perfect because Neil is based here in Sac last I heard.

Scott, what part of VA are you from btw?


Dave

 

[Fatts]

Dave,
Plants are at a min. I have a couple of very small swords that I moved from my 240 long. In my 240 they only grow about 10 inches so I don't expect much size. I put them in the back corners. There is also some small vals growing very poorly along the edge of the driftwood. I am growing algea though like a champ!!!

As for stock, take a look at apistodave on AB, I know, he is in Sisters, OR, but his fish are incredible! I don't think that shipping should be too much. He has some beatuful cacs and he also has some nice aggies.

I am out in Virginia Beach. Living the navy life for another few months (166 days!!!) then I'm outta here.

 

[Daybed]

Scott,

Talk about algae, my 29 is almost back on the right track after a bad algae spell. I'm blaming my DIY CO2. Well, maybe I should blame myself for waiting too long before making a new yeast batch-almost 3 weeks. Boy did that bad boy smell when I opened it! So, I'm thinking the drop of CO2 led to the algae. Currently adding Flourish Excel as I've heard it contains an algacide. The question now is, should I go high tech or low tech for the 20 long? But after this algae bloom in the 29, I'm thinking I'm leaning towards low tech for now!

I know shipping doesn't come out to an arm and a leg, but 20 or 30 bucks means a lot to a college student! jk...well, not really.

I have an aunt that lives in Fairfax, close to George Mason. My cousin actually goes there.

Anyways, let's see what Apistodave has at the time being....


Dave

 

[wlagory]

Some good plants to put in are java fern, java moss (for possible fry), and crypts. I keep these in my 10 gallon with a pair of apisto borelli, 3 pristella tetras, and an oto. These plants do good in a shallow tank and are slow growing. You can get some really nice colors with crypts to add some variety. The apistos seem to love the java fern as well, it does best attached to driftwood and can do a lot to help split up the territories. Good luck with your choices.

 

[Christine-FishGrrl]

If you ever get down to the San Jose area, Jim at Mainly Cichlids has a lot of different types of apistos. I got a harem of trifasciatas and I was really impressed with them. Of course with the gas prices being what they are, it might be cheaper to get them shipped!

 

[Daybed]

wlagory- I just got two small java ferns a couple days ago, and attached them to the driftwood in my 20 long. The only problem is that they're pretty small, so splitting up territories is quite difficult due to their small size.

I bit the bullet and took rocks from around the yard, boiled them in water, and put most of them in the 20 long and some in the 29g. In the 20 long, I piled them against the rim of two separate clay pots, leaving a small enough gap for an entrance. At this point, the tank is pretty bare for apisto standards. I've read in this and another forum that a heavily planted and aquascaped tank is more ideal for an apisto habitat. Rather than using a whole bunch of rocks and driftwood to fill in the gaps, I want to use plants. Pending an upgrade of lighting, this tank must remain low-tech for the time being (hopefully not that long, I just got to keep myself from eating out too much so I can save up!).

Christine-I took my girlfriend to a Giants game last week. We stopped by my favorite LFS after the game and I decided to buy a pair of A. Macmasteri. I had read your post before we went to the game, and I had it in the back of my mind to subtly say to her we should go to San Jose just because. But after I saw the apistos at the LFS in SF, I decided against it. He had several fully grown adult macmasteri left that were $35 a pair. The ones I bought were $10 each, and are 1.5" long. The male is starting to show some red coloration in his caudal fin, and has a more darker color than the girl. He is about 1/8" to 1/4" longer than she is.

So, I'm posting this while I watch the guy playfully court the girl-I might be wrong though as I've never had apistos before. So far, I'm fortunate enough to have not seen any aggression what-so-ever between the two. They were very shy and cautious to come out of hiding for the first few days. I had to feed them by dropping the food near a spot where I thought I saw them last, not knowing if they had eaten at all. I've been feeding them live tubiflex and NLS garlic flakes-although I'm not certain if they had eaten the flakes yet. Along with the macmasteri, I have three panda cories and one female guppy-the remnants of an impulse buy at petsmart.

At this point, I'm very satisfied with the two apistos I got. I'm starting to watch less TV and more of them. I still want to get some Cacatuoides because they seem to be most people's bread and butter. So I'm thinking I might move the macs to a 10g and put the cacs in the 20 long.

The only question I have at this point is should I get another female or two? Do the macmasteri do better one on one or in a harem?


Sorry for the long post! Should I just move my questions over to the beginner's section?


Dave

 

[faewyn]

Hi Dave, glad to hear the fish are settled in.

I love cac's eventhough they are bread and butter fish, their are my favourite apisto!

Good luck and I hope they spawn for you soon!

Jess

 

[Daybed]

thanks faewyn! it's not a bad thing that cacs are bread and butter fish, I just can't wait to get some to join the crowd! It just sucks that there aren't any local cac breaders, I mean breeders, so I have to get some from out of state which adds to shipping. And you know how college students are all poor, right? It'll just take a week or so for me to get the cacs.

So, at their present size/age, are my macmasteri ready to spawn?

Dave

 

[faewyn]

Keeping fish makes you poor too LOL!
I am not familiar with macmasteri, so I can't help you there, sorry.

 

[Daybed]

it's ok, jess, don't worry about it. I'll be sure to let a barrage of questions go off just for you once I get some cacs.

Dave