Apistogramma sp. Nadelstreifen A78 ?

[Juergen]

Another Apistogramma collected near Leticia, Amazonas, Colombia. Is this a Nadelstreifen A78? Male or a female?

 

[Mike Wise]

If from near Leticia, then it probably is Nadelstreifen. It is hard to say for sure from only one photo. It is a female. Displaying males are very diagnostic. They show only every other bar along the flanks instead of all 7. Here is a photo of a displaying male A. sp. Nadelstreifen that TomC. Julio Melgar, and I collected outside of Leticia in 2008:

 

[Frank Hättich]

I don't think it's A. sp. Nadelstreifen Mike. The caudal spot seems to be too small vertically and not well enough separated from the lateral band. Moreover, the fish shows a patterned caudal fin and the abdominal markings look (at least partly) zigzag shaped to me.Together with the blotch in the rear part of the dorsal fin the fish reminds me of A. norberti. Since it is from near Leticia, my guess would be A.sp. aff. norberti. But of course, I can be completely wrong!

 

[Juergen]

Thanks guys, your opinions are much appreciated.

 

[Mike Wise]

Sorry, Frank, but there is no way that my fish is closely related to A. norberti. A. norberti is a trifasciata-lineage species. My A. sp. Nadelstreifen is definitely a member of the regani-lineage. Most apistos can't be ID'd from just 1 photo anyway, so here is an 'on site' photo of a frightened young male collected at the same site as the above specimen (who knows, it might be the same fish!):

Ignore the face because it is distorted by the curved corner of the sample cup. As you can see, it definitely is regani-group species: distinct vertical bars, caudal spot separate from the lateral band - and no lateral spot, only darker patches where each bar crosses the lateral band. The abdominal stripes are extremely narrow (as on Nadelstreifen) and the caudal shows no pattern. Before TomC, Julio and I brought this species back the only photos of Nadelstreifen were of Koslowski's juvenile specimen found with fish reported to be from Colombia.

 

[Frank Hättich]

I was not referring to your fish Mike, that's of course a Nadelstreifen, but rather to the one shown by Juergen.

 

[MickeM]

My guess....!

I would also say Juergens fish is a norberti-related Apisto...
2 other things indicates this..(in my opinion..)

1- The cheek-stripe/ stripe on the gillcover in Juergen`s pic look like it is more slender (less wide) than the cheek-stripe on Ap. sp. Nadelstriefen..(Mike`s pics)

2- Most of the times I percieve the bodies of Ap. norberti/nijsseni/baenschi/panduro/atahualpa/rositae-species to have more of a high/compact/robust shape(silhouette)..!
It is almost like the body is slightly shorter+ higher....in relation to the height of their dorsal fin(which then looks levelled/plane).. and maybe it is thicker in total.. if looked at, from the mouth/front of the fish.. At least when being young specimen of norberti-"type", and yet with no colors.. or having elongated spines in the dorsal fin !!
I also think the 2 last pics from Mike reveals a slightly more long/protraced body-shape than Juergens fish.. maybe due to a more elongated caudal fin ??

And as you mentioned Frank... the dark blotch in the dorsal fin of Juergens fish is very pronounced..!!

As always with young unidentified Apistos... it is like a game.. but it is fun too!!

 

[MickeM]

By the way...
Have anyone compared the body-"thickness" in different Apisto-complexes or species??
Maybe it is documented in the separate descriptions for each species??

For example... "Body-thickness in mm at the centre of the body, where 1st dorsal spine is located" ..
(even though, this may be a veery individual/"bad" method of measurement??)

 

[Frank Hättich]

Juergen's fish moreover seems to show the boundary of a marginal band in the caudal fin like the one known from A. norberti.

 

[Juergen]

Some more photos...

 

[Juergen]

And the fish nr 2 photos

 

[Frank Hättich]

It seems you have two different species: fish 2 is A. sp. Nadelstreifen. Regarding fish 1, my guess would still be A. sp. aff. norberti.

 

[Mike Wise]

I now agree with you Frank & MikeM. After seeing the 2nd set of photos, one can see the obvious lateral spot which is visible on all trifasciata-lineage species, but not on regani-lineage species. If we had these photos originally it would have been easy to see that they are not of A. sp. Nadelstreifen. The original photo was so 'generic' that an accurate ID wasn't possible. Visible markings are typical of dozens (100s) of apisto species. This is why it is always best to see a fish in several photos and in different moods. As for which species Juergen's fish actually is, then I would agree with Frank & MikeM again. It probably is A. cf. norberti (Lyretail) on my species list. This is a rarely seen species of unknown origins. It was reported to have come in with fish from the Leticia area, but I don't know if this is verified yet.

The "fish nr 2 photos" are A. sp. Nadelstreifen.

As for body shape, well it varies somewhat even within species-complexes. Most descriptions list body depth/height as a percent of standard length in the meristics section. Many species-complexes have species that vary quite a bit in body shape and often converges with those of other complexes, so it isn't as important as other features.

 

[Frank Hättich]

Steve McAlear collected Lyretail norbertis last year and he said the location was "km 11 via Tarapaca Leticia Amazonas Colombia. It was a stream in the Yahaucaca drainage".