Elizabethae?

[abrooks12376]

These popped up at my lfs, are they really elizabethae?

 

[Mike Wise]

Photos aren't good enough to say, but I doubt it. A. elizabethae shows 2 lateral spot on the body. I see only one.

 

[abrooks12376]

What would your guess be as to what they actually are?

 

[MickeM]

Here is a pretty wild guess ...!!

To me it looks like the "male"-fish (standing beneath the yellow one..which probably is a female????) on the 1st pic is having a dark area below the lower lip/on the "throat".. and if you add that sign to what seems to be a very broad lateral band + 1 lateral spot..
... If you are lucky.., I`d guess that it might be either A.sp. "Abacaxis" or A. cf. pulchra..!!???
"Abacaxis"-males often show the yellow/orange front-part of the head/body as this "male" also tend to have..

At least this guess can give you some alternative Apisto-options to look up...??
Be back with more pics if you can..
Good luck!!

 

[abrooks12376]

Thanks micke, they're still at the lfs. I'm setting up a 30l for them now. Im not to hung up on the name, they look new and exciting and the price tag is not that bad so...

 

[MickeM]

Maybe something to compare with ..
A. sp. "Abacaxis"..

 

[MickeM]

OK...Nice!!! Looks like nice fishes in great condition...

 

[abrooks12376]

Are those yours?

 

[MickeM]

No, I`m afraid these pics are a few years old now... and they have passed on (to the other side..)!!
The "Abacaxi"-couple belonged to my friend...
But they are availible from some wholesalers from time to time here in Europe.. Then as Apistogramma sp. wilhelmi..
I don`t know the 100% correct name , but they are real beauties!!!


These were offered to us from Aquarium Glaser in Germany last week..(g.br.-German bred)

Apistogramma agassizi RED TAIL
Apisto.agassizi DOUBLE RED
Apisto.agassizi TEFE II wild
Apisto.bitaeniata kleei wild
Apisto.bitaeniata ORANGE wild
Apisto.borelli/reitzigi g.br.
Apisto.borelli/PARAGUAY wild
Apisto.commbrae wild
Apistogramma cacatuoides wild
Apisto.cacatuoides GOLD/ORANGE
Apist.caca.3-fach ORANGE g.br.
Apisto.cacatuoides RED TAIL
Apisto.cacatuoides DOUBLE RED
Apistogramma diplotaenia wild
Apistogramma diplotaenia g.br.
Ap.elizabethae/RED BELLY g.br.
Apistogramma gephyra wild
Apistogramma gephyra wild
Apistogramma hongsloi/RED LINE
Apisto.hongsloi/FARBF.l g.br.
Ap.allpahuayo/BLACK CHIN wild
Apistogramma macmasteri g.br.
Apistogramma mendezi wild
Apistogramma nijsseni g.br.
Apistogramma panduro wild
Apisto.paucisquamis wild
Apistogramma pertensis wild
Apisto.borellii OPAL g.br.
Apisto.baenschi (INKA I) wild
Apisto.baenschi (INKA I) g.br.


And this list came from the Czech breeders:

Apistogramma agassizii Alenquer
Apistogramma agassizii Gold head (wild type)
Apistogramma agassizii Gold head (wild type)
Apistogramma agassizii "Super Red"
Apistogramma agassizii Tucurui gold line
Apistogramma alacrina
Apistogramma alacrina
Apistogramma allpahuayo
Apistogramma baenschi
Apistogramma borellii
Apistogramma borellii Opal
Apistogramma borellii Pantanal
Apistogramma borellii Pantanal
Apistogramma borellii Yellow head
Apistogramma cacatuoides "Double Red"
Apistogramma cacatuoides "Double Red"
Apistogramma cacatuoides "Mega Red"
Apistogramma caetei
Apistogramma cf. caetei Xingu
Apistogramma cf. caetei Xingu
Apistogramma cf. caetei Xingu
Apistogramma commbrae
Apistogramma commbrae
Apistogramma cruzi
Apistogramma cruzi
Apistogramma erythrura
Apistogramma hongsloi I
Apistogramma hongsloi Red
Apistogramma hongsloi "Super Red"
Apistogramma iniridae Rio Atabapo
Apistogramma cf. luelingi "Cristall"
Apistogramma macmasteri
Apistogramma macmasteri "Gold / Red Shoulder"
Apistogramma macmasteri "Red Shoulder"
Apistogramma martini
Apistogramma martini
Apistogramma cf. nijsseni "Marsel"
Apistogramma cf. nijsseni "Marsel"
Apistogramma panduro
Apistogramma pulchra "Borba" Rio Madeira
Apistogramma pulchra Chingarno / Novo Aripuana
Apistogramma pulchra Chingarno / Novo Aripuana
Apistogramma rubrolineata
Apistogramma staecki F1
Apistogramma urteagai F1
Apistogramma "Carapintada"
Apistogramma "Diamond Face"
Apistogramma "Inka II"
Apistogramma "Inka II"
Apistogramma "Oregon"
Apistogramma "Oregon"
Apistogramma "Papagallo"
Apistogramma "Rio Jutai" F1
Apistogramma "Rocafuerte" Rio Aguarico F1
Apistogramma "Vitória do Xingu"

 

[Mike Wise]

There is no way to identify these fish from these photos. Best I can do is that they belong to the agassizii-sublineage, which contains about 30+ species and over 100 populations.

 

[abrooks12376]

There is no way to identify these fish from these photos. Best I can do is that they belong to the agassizii-sublineage, which contains about 30+ species and over 100 populations.

Fair enough, that being said.. would you bet $28/ea. on them being awesome?
I already set up a new 30l for them, got a 4 stage ro, I've been wanting to keep an Agassizii type anyways.

 

[Mike Wise]

If I could actually see them in the tank I could probably identify them. $28 is a lot if they're A. agassizii IMHO, but everyone has their price limit.

 

[abrooks12376]

Alright mike, let me get them happy and ill post pics for you in a couple days. They're under 1.5" and washed out. Supposedly wc, I chanced the expensive agassizii:/ didn't win Powerball so...

 

[abrooks12376]

Here's a few pics.

 

[MickeM]

Nice to see !!! Male+female from what I can see!!!!??? and I still think it looks like A.sp. "Abacaxis" or A.cf. pulchra..
If you can "bribe" them with some food , and get a nice pic with them standing by/at the front glass..,
.. Mike W. will probably be able to help you to sort out exactly what species they are!!!

If they are wild caught...be sure to ask your LFS where/what country they may come from??
..sometimes they have great contacts with their wholesalers..

 

[abrooks12376]

I would be totally thrilled with abacaxis! Not much info aside from being wc.

 

[MickeM]

OK.. maybe you can try to lurk out which wholesaler/person your LFS got them from?? ..and wright it down!!
Then you will have some info anyway... and sometimes you can get more info later on...
(sometimes from people working for the wholesaler ..or at specific "Cichlid Assoc."-meetings ?)
"We" do this a lot in our clubs for killie-fishes.. and saves it for later..for example: A. cf. pulchra, CI 2016 + wholesalers name.. (CI- Commercial Import)
When someone then gets further info that is reliable, you can add that info too.. ( "Rio Preto, Brazil" )

 

[MickeM]

BTW.. here are some more info+pics for A. pulchra/cf. pulchra (?)

https://www.ciklid.org/artregister/art.php?ID=284

 

[abrooks12376]

What about Wilhelm? Someone commented on the dark chins?

 

[Mike Wise]

You'll need much better photos than these for an ID. A. sp. Wilhelmi (a very poor name IMHO) is the same species as A. sp. Abacaxis.