two questions in one - Geophagus sp. Alto Sinu condition for keeping and wc gbr

[anewbie]

I have a pair of questions - first what are the correct conditions for Geophagus sp. Alto Sinu (gold dust); with regards to water softness and temp range. I'm finding information ranging from 68-76 to 76-84 and water condition from acidic to 5 to 14 degree hardness. Almost sounds like multiple species under the same name. The hardness sounds like a ca fish not one found in brazil and the temp range i can't figure out.

On wc gbr what is the prefer temp and do they require blackwater or do they readily adapt to soft water around tds 80-90 ? I generally keep tank raised one around 82 but not sure if wc ones are ok with a bit lower temp ?

 

[MacZ]

You are aware that most info you get on the net is not based on the numbers from the wild but either numbers at wich people bred them in captivity or at which the fish did not die on them. If the source has any interest in selling them the numbers given are almost asured to be covering a too wide range.

You know the range where the Geophagus occur in the wild? Then probably this map will help you:

Water values South America (Map pH) - Southamerica fans

To explain the markings on the map The color scale is based on the droplet tests for pH: red: appr. 4 to 5,5 yellow: appr. 6,0 three green: 6,5 7,0 and 7,5 blue appr. 8 to 9,5. Gray points stand for measurements without pH. For measurements where the exact location is known, the GPS data was

www.suedamerikafans.de

About temp: Close to the Equator is usually the highest average, the further away you go the more differences are there between seasons. The latter means you should pick a number in the middle ground because they will neither do well at a constant high or low end temp.

That said for M. ramirezi: High temp (28-31°C), low conductivity (below 50), but they are NOT a blackwater species, they are a clearwater species.

Also as a sidenote:

acidic to 5 to 14 degree hardness.

acidic refers to pH, degree hardness do not. If a source mixes those two scales up, without it being a type toss it completely.

 

[anewbie]

You are aware that most info you get on the net is not based on the numbers from the wild but either numbers at wich people bred them in captivity or at which the fish did not die on them. If the source has any interest in selling them the numbers given are almost asured to be covering a too wide range.

You know the range where the Geophagus occur in the wild? Then probably this map will help you:

Water values South America (Map pH) - Southamerica fans

To explain the markings on the map The color scale is based on the droplet tests for pH: red: appr. 4 to 5,5 yellow: appr. 6,0 three green: 6,5 7,0 and 7,5 blue appr. 8 to 9,5. Gray points stand for measurements without pH. For measurements where the exact location is known, the GPS data was

www.suedamerikafans.de

About temp: Close to the Equator is usually the highest average, the further away you go the more differences are there between seasons. The latter means you should pick a number in the middle ground because they will neither do well at a constant high or low end temp.

That said for M. ramirezi: High temp (28-31°C), low conductivity (below 50), but they are NOT a blackwater species, they are a clearwater species.

Also as a sidenote:

acidic refers to pH, degree hardness do not. If a source mixes those two scales up, without it being a type toss it completely.

Origin – Amazon River basin of South America is all i can find on gold dust geo; but that is a long river with wide range of temp. Yea i know acidic is kh/ph but perhaps mistakenly i believe kh is not as important as gh for most fishes.
-
Oh and gold dust geo are a colubmian fish which i guess means cooler water.

 

[MacZ]

Oh and gold dust geo are a colubmian fish which i guess means cooler water.

Not at all, my last batch of Dicrossus were Colombian. Middle Orinoco, preferred Temp above 26°C.

Origin – Amazon River basin of South America is all i can find on gold dust geo;

I'm stupid. Alto Sinú means Upper Sinú. So it's Rio Sinú, almost Panama. In the Map I linked there is sadly only ONE reference for that area.

name
Rio Pachicilla (7.246944,-76.804167)
description
Datum ?
Temp.: 29,5 °C
pH: 8,2
Leitfähigkeit: 410 µS/cm
Evers Amazonas 5/2006 S. 66

Hard and alkaline.

 

[anewbie]

Not at all, my last batch of Dicrossus were Colombian. Middle Orinoco, preferred Temp above 26°C.


I'm stupid. Alto Sinú means Upper Sinú. So it's Rio Sinú, almost Panama. In the Map I linked there is sadly only ONE reference for that area.


Hard and alkaline.

Yea I don't think that is accurate for this species but i could be mistaken. That is i don't think they are a hardwater fish nor quite that warm but i'm just not sure - is all of amazon rio sinu hard aklaline or is that just a side tributary off the amazon?

 

[anewbie]

Here is one article that suggest soft water but not sure how reliable this source is - do you know much about them @MacZ (fishkeeper.co.uk i mean?)

Gold dust eartheater - Geophagus sp. 'Alto Sinu'

Expert facts, care advice, feeding tips and breeding information about the Gold dust Eartheater (Geophagus sp. 'Alto Sinu') for freshwater aquarium enthusiasts.

www.fishkeeper.co.uk

 

[Ttw]

I collected Rams in Venezuela. Three collection sites. Ph 6.4, 6.7, 5.8 TDS 90 ppm, 110 ppm, 30 ppm
Temp 86°F, 91°F, and I did not get the temp of the third site. The wild Rams we get now are from Colombia but these water parameters give you some idea of the water they live in.

 

[MacZ]

Here is one article that suggest soft water but not sure how reliable this source is - do you know much about them @MacZ (fishkeeper.co.uk i mean?)

Gold dust eartheater - Geophagus sp. 'Alto Sinu'

Expert facts, care advice, feeding tips and breeding information about the Gold dust Eartheater (Geophagus sp. 'Alto Sinu') for freshwater aquarium enthusiasts.

www.fishkeeper.co.uk

No, I just researched directly from one hint, saying they live in the Rio Sinú. That article passed me by completely, because I didn't look for such. Also it's a store website. I don't trust those with parameters anymore. Generic numbers. Saying "soft and acidic pH 6.0-7.0" just to continue "KH up to 15 degrees" is like saying "the day is warm and friendly at 5°C and rainfall".

This might interest you, though. If you need translation just ask.

http://www.scielo.org.co/pdf/rudca/v24n1/0123-4226-rudca-24-01-e1678.pdf

Page 5 has the list. ST is "solidos totales" = TDS.
What I read: The dry season sees higher temps, TDS and pH (average: 31.5°C, 172.6mg/L TDS and pH 8.0), the wet season lower readings of all of them.

Environmental characterization of the reproductive season of migratory fish of the Sinú river (Córdoba, Colombia)

This one only has TDS and EC.

Triver during the reproductive season showed values that ranged between 26.7 and 29.0°C; while spawning appeared in the interval between 27.0 and 28.7°C (Figure 1).
STD values during the period ranged between 73.0 and 302.3 mg/L; dorada, bagre blanco and bocachico spawning appeared in this interval; while barbul spawning appeared in the interval between 99.3 and 119.0 mg/L (Figure 1).
[...]
CE during the reproductive period showed values that ranged between 81.0 and 361.7 µS/cm. Bocachico, dorada and bagre blanco spawning appeared in a similar interval (81.0-325.7 µS/cm); while barbul spawning appeared in an interval between 99.7-128.5 µS/cm (Figure 1).

Tells me, there is high variation over the course of the year.

is all of amazon rio sinu hard aklaline or is that just a side tributary off the amazon?

Look at a map: The Rio Sinú drains into the Caribbean close to the border with Panama. So if some article says Amazon, it's dead wrong.