The perfect tank for Rams?

[Roy Wadey]

Hi, I am new to this forum but have been interested in dwarf cichlids and planted aquaria for quite a few years now. I am not really a specialist but over the years have kept most of the more common species of South American and West african Dwarfs.

Undoubtably my favourite fish are Rams. I have kept these in the past and even raised several generations in a community tank setting. I would now like to set up a tank dedicated to these fish. My question is what would people on this forum consider the ideal setup for this species? Factors I am considering are tank size, aquascaping, companion fish etc. The tank I am contemplating would be a display tank but I would like the fish to breed, without necessarily raising large numbers of fry.

I look forward to hearing your views, Roy.

 

[mk_ultra]

I love these guys too. More character in a little a package. What kind of Rams. I have a pair of Bolivians.
I would assume the best substrate would be sand or small pebbles. Since they like to dig around. Esp. for their spawning pits. How many do you plan to keep in a tank?
As far as companion I would go with (my two favorites) Hatchet fish and cardinals. But then again who cares. these guys look good with anything and can defend themselves against anything.

 

[Roy Wadey]

I am talking about Blue Rams (M. ramerizi). I would like to keep a group of them so that I can observe territorial and mating behaviours. How much tank space should I allow for each fish/pair? Can they be kept at high density in the manner Romer suggests for Apistos? Should I keep any other bottom orientated fish with them ( a few Apistos would be nice!) or would it be better just to use mid and upper water level schooling fish like those you suggest?
I was thinking of using a fine-grained substrate anyway for the plants. What sort of planting would be recommended? For instance, what proportion of the foreground should be left open so that the fish can root around and dig spawning pits? Should the background be planted with stem plants or larger rossettes such as amazon swords? what about floating plants? Or should I be providing the majority of cover in the form of bogwood or rocks? How would the space best be divided up in order to create territories and breeding sites?
Any advice on these and other questions would be welcomed!

 

[Neil]

Roy Wadey,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

Rams are most comfortable in warm water with fine substrate. There should be several surfaces to lay eggs, which can include flat stones, slate or broadleaved plants. Their tankmates can vary quite a bit, but should not include any aggressive apisto species. If you want a good display for rams to show their stuff, I would suggest the following:
1. A 60g aquarium (shorter with more ground space).
2. Sand substrate (thin for easy cleaning)
3. Background plants with broad leaves, some mid ground plants or leaf litter for cover (hiding places and territory division), and some rock or slate surfaces thrown in for additional breeding surface( mid to front).
4. Group of rams 4 males/2 females.
5. A group of tetra, pencils or hatchetfish, etc.

You can put other types of fish in there, but it will change the dynamics of the tank. For example, if you put another type of cichlid (apisto), you may want to reduce the ram group. If you put bottom scavengers (cories, etc.), it may cause problems with eggs stealing. Otos may be a good choice though.
With the above set-up, you should get a pretty good look at some interesting ram behavior.
Neil

 

[Roy Wadey]

Thanks for that Niel,

Sounds like the sort of set up I was after.
I guess you are talking about a 60 US gallon tank? I live in the UK and I am not sure what the dimensions of this tank would be: something like 36 x 18 x 18 inches?
Why do you suggest more males than females? I was actually thinking the opposite.
If I was to go for a biotope tank, what species of tetras and plants would be appropriate? By this I mean a true Venezualian/Columbian flood plain habitat, rather than a generalised 'South American tank'.

Roy.

 

[irishspy]

Hi Roy,

Glowlights are a Venezuelan fish (Rio Orinoco, if I remember right). I think a school of those would look nice with the rams.

--Anthony

 

[Roy Wadey]

Really? You may be right Anthony, but the only specific river system I can find quoted for glowlights in my references is the Essequito in Eastern Guyana. This river is seperated from the Orrinoco by the Guyanan highlands and so unless this fish has a very wide range (perhaps linked via the Amazon?) this would be an unusual ditribution. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
At a quick glance through my books, the only common tetras that I can find from Venezuala (others than those from the Upper Rio Negro) are the Emporer tetras (Nematobrycon species). I'm not sure yet whether they would be found in the same habitat as Rams. Again, if anyone knows more about this, or other suitable fish that may occur in nature with M. ramerizi please do chip in.

 

[irishspy]

Really? You may be right Anthony, but the only specific river system I can find quoted for glowlights in my references is the Essequito in Eastern Guyana.

Argh, you're right. It is the Essequibo in my reference books.

 

[Roy Wadey]

That's OK Anthony , I've discovered that my own suggestion about Emperer Tetras is wrong too. They come from rivers in Western Columbia that flow westwards to the Pacific rather than forming part of the Orinoco drainage sytem and flowing East.
Clearly I will have to do some more research here!

Roy.

 

[Minders]

This probably isn't useful at all ( ) but in this game, all info/experience is useful in my opinion.

I have a S.American biotope. Not as specific as yours though. I'm not fussed about all being from one country. However, I do have one pair of Apisto. Agassizi as well as Emporer Tetras (2x males, 2x females) so thought it might be useful to pass on my experience.

I have tetras (glow-lights, lemons, emporers), pencilfish, hatchetfish, corys & ancistrus (sucker fish). Of all these, the Emporers are definitely the most territorial of the lot, and naturally, they were the first fish the Apistos clashed with when they were introduced to the tank. They took over the dominant male Emporers "patch" in no time at all. The Emporers now treat the Apistos with respect and have bowed to them as tank bosses.

Well, don't know if that's of any use whatsoever, but there you have it. :wink:

 

[Woodsy]

I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I'd just like to point out- If your fish and plants are not all from the same country, or indeed area, then it's not a biotope.

 

[Minders]

Well, normally I just call it my S.American tank, but the guy at the Aquarium centre started me off with the term biotope. I've always just made sure that all the fish were S. American. I'm more than happy with it as it is. I just enjoy keeping the fish, and the fact that they're all relatively from the same area is interesting to me.

My main reason for replying to your post was to let you in on a little useful info about the emporers (i.e. that they're more territorial than most tetras which I thought important if you're ever likely to put them with cichlids).

Didn't mean to offend. :roll:

 

[apistodave]

Get really technical. I once had a customer build a tank based on the Paraguay river system. Research your fish and the river and then go for it, copy it as close as yu can. As foir the size of the tank? I think something say 10-12 feet long by 3-4 high and about 8 feet back to front would be cool --something you could swim in

 

[Roy Wadey]

Well, I have been doing some research. Rams are found in a flat, low-lying region formed by the deposition of sand and mud washed down from the Andes. The vegetation is limited to grasses and low shrubs. In the wet season the rivers rise dramatically and the whole area becomes flooded. The 19th century explorer, Humbolt, described it as being like an ocean covered in seaweed. At this time, although the daytime air temperature is in the mid twenties, at night it may fall to 10oC. Presumably, in the wet season, Rams live among the flooded grasses.
Invariably Rams are collected in the dry season when they are found in pools, lagoons and slow flowing streams that remain in the lowest lying areas. These shallow waters are heated by the unshaded sun and may reach temperatures in excess of 35oC. Most of the collection sites were free of aquatic plants with an open sandy to muddy bottom. The only cover was provided by fallen palm tree branches or overhanging bank vegetation. Occasionally there is thick submerged vegetation including Nymphaea, Echhornia auzurea, E. heterosperma, Caboma furcata, Heteranthera, Marsilea (?), Mayaca, and Sagittaria. The lagoons often have low, marshy banks covered in grassy Elodea-like plants.
All this suggests an aquarium with an extensive open foreground with a sandy substrate, and a mid-background planted with grass-like plants and perhaps a few pieces of bogwood. Right at the rear of the aquarium there could be a few clumps of taller-growing bunch plants that may be allowed to trail over the surface.
What I am having more difficulty with is companion fish. Fish collected along with M. ramerizi are said to include Micropoecilia picta (variegated Mollie), Hemigrammus armstrongi (the Gold tetra) and Apistogramma Hoigni. However, my references suggest that M. picta is a coastal water fish that prefers slightly brackish conditions, while H. armstrongi is a synonym of H. rodwayi which is supposed to be from the lower amazon and Guyana.
Fish that have been reported to be sympatric with A. hoigni and other members of the A. Hongsloi complex (which have a similar distribution range to M. ramerizi) include: Hemigrammus blehri/rhodotromus (Rummy-nose tetras), Hyphessobrycon pulchiprinnis (Lemon tetra), H. metae (purple tetra), Pristella maxillaris (X-ray tetra), Megalamphodus sweglesi (Red phantom) and Carnegialla strigata (Marbled Hatchet). Again, however, all of these except H. metae and M. sweglesi are given different distributions, not including the range of M. ramerizi, in my references, while several sources stress that Red Phantoms prefer a cool aquarium, around 22oC. Can I rely on the authors of my cichlid books correctly identifying the sympatric species and the distributions of these tetras being incorrect? Does anyone have any experience in keeping Red Phantoms in the warm tanks usually recommended for Rams? (Note to self: seasonal temperature fluctuations?)
Other suitable companion fish that I have found to have the correct distribution are Carnegiella marthae (the black winged hatchet), Hemmigrammus micropterus, and Corynopoma riiseri (swordtail characin). Other than the A. hongsloi complex, I think I am right in saying that Dicrossus filamentosus, Biotoceus dicentrarchus and Laetacara ‘Orange fin’ are found in the same region. Any comments on these fish as suitable tank-mates for Rams and whether they are likely to be found in the same biotope?
As for the size of the tank, obviously the ideal aquarium for Rams would have the area of a small lagoon (but probably wouldn’t be very deep), but I am not sure I could convince my wife that I really need a twelve footer! Nonetheless, Romer does suggest that the 100cm aquarium used by Linke and Staeck for breeding two pairs of Rams may have been too small. He used a 150cm long tank to successfully keep a group of these fish and so, clearly, the optimum aquarium shouldn’t be too small.

 

[apistodave]

This is really great stuff Roy I print it out--you should post it for aquarium clubs to but in their newsletters--if you dont want to can I --I put your name on it of course!!!!!!!!!!

 

[aspen]

imo, rams don't do well in a group unless the tank is very big. i believe that one big male and a female for him would make a fine display, as i have done in 20 - 35 gal tanks.

the reason for catching them in the sandy area might have something to do with... have you ever tried to catch a ram in a densely planted tank? i doubt it would be any easier in a thick grassy expanse, and you may also pick the sandy part to do the catching. ime, they will use the heavily planted areas and the open areas, and they like the covered areas to have their spawns. most often i have had them lay on a sword leaf, then move them a few times. sometimes i have had them lay on the slate, but only if they were the only species in the tank.

as for a biotope tank, it may be nice to have a piece of nature, a sandy area next to a densely planted area. this would mean a sandy area in the middle surrounded by plants normally in a fishtank. but it will depend a LOT on what species that you put int there with them.

my nicest tank, imo, was a 20 gal with single adult discus, a pair of rams, some rummy nose tetras and some small algae eaters of various types. not a biotope but attractive, interesting and lively.

maybe i'm wrong, but in nature, i normally see only 1 plant species in an area. like a grassy area, or an area where there are large expanses with one type of leafed plant, not many species like in a nice planted display.

rick

 

[Roy Wadey]

Dave, feel free to use this stuff however you like. I should point out though that it is just what I have gleaned from the usual dwarf cichlid references, particularly, Linke and Staeck, Mayland and Bork and Romer, plus magazine articles I have collected over the years and a few other sources like travel books etc. so I can’t take too much credit for it.
Rick I agree with you that Rams are collected where it is easiest to do so. I was just pointing out that, at least in the dry season, Rams are not found in the complex structured biotopes with leaf litter, tree roots etc. that Apistos, for example, typically are. Rams may well spawn in the wet season among the flooded grasses? In this case a well-planted tank would be more appropriate.
I have kept pairs of Rams in relatively small tanks or general communities before. What I am now looking to achieve is an aquarium where I can observe more natural interactions between these fish. To be honest I am not yet sure whether I am going to go for the true biotope setup or not yet. It depends whether I can create an attractive combination of fish and plants that is at the same time an accurate reflection of the natural biotope. It may yet prove that ‘the perfect tank for Rams’ will include fish or plants that are not part of their natural enviroment. I wouldn’t want to include predators for example! In addition, the tank will be in my lounge so it has to be an attractive display as well. However, an aquarium can be dominated by one type of plant, such as grasses, and still look good; just take a look at some of Amano’s or Jeff Senskes aquascapes!