Hi new to the forum and new to apistos. Want to start a tank and have been lookin at sand for a substrate but have read it is not good for planted tanks. Since I want plants for my apistos to hide in i think it would probably be best to get some thoughts. thanks for any ideas
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Substrate
- Thread starter zeiglerm
- Start date
- Messages
- 41
sand is the best option. almost every fish prefer it (cant actually think of a fish that does prefer gravel, but not going to say "all fish")
I have plants growing quite well in sand. however, (just as it would with inert gravel) plain sand is not great for growing plants. it needs to be enriched with another more nutritious substrate
I have used both a proper aquatic plant substrate, as well as using common potting soil (loam based) the latter should be used with a bit of care, as it "can" leach ammonia into the water.
I have plants growing quite well in sand. however, (just as it would with inert gravel) plain sand is not great for growing plants. it needs to be enriched with another more nutritious substrate
I have used both a proper aquatic plant substrate, as well as using common potting soil (loam based) the latter should be used with a bit of care, as it "can" leach ammonia into the water.
- Messages
- 593
- Location
- Sydney, NSW Australia
Gday All,
Yes agree, sand is the best for nealy all fish types, but especially the Apistos as they also like sifting through the sand. My plants grow well in sand, providing you give them a regular fertilizer and after 4-5months, I do not even add any more fertilizer as there is sufficient nutrients in the sand itself. just also remember, Apistos do not neccessarily need plants, their biotop is more leaf matter and roots etc. have fun cheers jk :biggrin:
Yes agree, sand is the best for nealy all fish types, but especially the Apistos as they also like sifting through the sand. My plants grow well in sand, providing you give them a regular fertilizer and after 4-5months, I do not even add any more fertilizer as there is sufficient nutrients in the sand itself. just also remember, Apistos do not neccessarily need plants, their biotop is more leaf matter and roots etc. have fun cheers jk :biggrin:
- Messages
- 357
- Location
- Spring Grove PA USA
I put down a bed of flourite, cover it with red flint fine gravel, and cover that with ultra fine miramac sand. DO NOT use sand blasting sand as it can and most of time will leach silica. If its all you can get rinse it with scalding hot water and quench it with hydrochloric acid.
We use sandblasting sand in quite a few of our tanks. We did nothing more than wash it well as it's pretty dusty.
I have it in everything from grow out tanks to breeding tanks with no problems.
It's quite a bit cheaper than anything in the pet stores. We started with Torpedo beach sand and switched over to the sandblasting sand. I believe it's about $15 a hundred as compared to $25 for 50 of what we see in the stores. When your talking 145 or more tanks it really adds up.
Now having said that I grow fish and the plants are secondary. I put plants in the tanks for the fish to be more comfortable. Fish thrive...plants...not so much.
Bev
I have it in everything from grow out tanks to breeding tanks with no problems.
It's quite a bit cheaper than anything in the pet stores. We started with Torpedo beach sand and switched over to the sandblasting sand. I believe it's about $15 a hundred as compared to $25 for 50 of what we see in the stores. When your talking 145 or more tanks it really adds up.
Now having said that I grow fish and the plants are secondary. I put plants in the tanks for the fish to be more comfortable. Fish thrive...plants...not so much.
Bev
- Messages
- 81
I'm a planted person first, but do love the fish as well.:wink: All my tanks have tons of plants. A high light tanks tank w/ CO2 injection; medium light tanks w/ Seachem Excel dosed for supplemental carbon. As well as some low light tanks w/ just once a week dosing of Macros & Traces. Most of the trick is in matching your dosing regime and plant selection to your light levels and plant mass. Many plants grow just great pulling their nutrient needs from the water column w/ their leaves. Think, mosses, java ferns, anubias, they always do this. Stems can also do this.
I've also tried out most varieties of substrates.
Here's a specific rundown I did for my club PAPAS:
http://www.homeofpapas.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38
Post # 6
Most plant geared substrates do well. Chunky aquarium gravels are the worse and should be shuned. Larger grained sand is better than very fine. A larger grain will not compact as much and allows some flow, including nutrients, into the substrate. Tahitian Moon Sand is too fine; regular Pool Filter Sand does great. It is graded to be uniform in size, totally inert and comes prewashed!! I get it at a local hardware store that carries pool supplies for $10.00 in 50lbs bags.
I too, have noticed that the Apistogrammas love to pick up the sand in their mouths and sift it. So now in my smaller tanks that are dedicated to the apisto I am gradually changing them over to all Pool Filter Sand. Besides observing good top growth; when I uproot stems that are planted in just PFS, they are a healthy white color and well developed. This lets me know the plants are doing just great in the PFS.
I've also tried out most varieties of substrates.
Here's a specific rundown I did for my club PAPAS:
http://www.homeofpapas.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38
Post # 6
Most plant geared substrates do well. Chunky aquarium gravels are the worse and should be shuned. Larger grained sand is better than very fine. A larger grain will not compact as much and allows some flow, including nutrients, into the substrate. Tahitian Moon Sand is too fine; regular Pool Filter Sand does great. It is graded to be uniform in size, totally inert and comes prewashed!! I get it at a local hardware store that carries pool supplies for $10.00 in 50lbs bags.
I too, have noticed that the Apistogrammas love to pick up the sand in their mouths and sift it. So now in my smaller tanks that are dedicated to the apisto I am gradually changing them over to all Pool Filter Sand. Besides observing good top growth; when I uproot stems that are planted in just PFS, they are a healthy white color and well developed. This lets me know the plants are doing just great in the PFS.
- Messages
- 41
silica is almost insoluble. sand blasting sand is fine from that angle.
however, it does tend to be quite sharp. so not the greatest for their gills.
for cheap sand look at playsand. it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, but on the whole its pretty good. my complaint with it was the colour which was a lot lighter that I wanted. however other suppliers gave me the colours I was after (though at too much of a cost for me to consider doing my 180g with)
couldnt find any info on the miramac sand, (unless you meant meramec sand, and even then found very little)
- Messages
- 357
- Location
- Spring Grove PA USA
Almost is the key word. Almost is affected by many things in the aquarium, temp, pH, Alkylinity, pO4, and its not a linear curve.
- Messages
- 41
so what is the "miramac sand" made of???
most aquariums sands are silica based, and most of the others are calcium based (coral sand/aragonite) and therefore not good for soft-water acidic dwelling dwarfs.
silica is almost completely inert, whereas other sands are not. I also have not come across ANY ill effects from the use of silica sand, as opposed to problems resulting from metals within the sand from other sources (black beauty springs to mind, "Black beauty sand is actually Metallic Slag from the manufacturing
of copper." obviously not good for inverts and I would suspect not great for fish)
most aquariums sands are silica based, and most of the others are calcium based (coral sand/aragonite) and therefore not good for soft-water acidic dwelling dwarfs.
silica is almost completely inert, whereas other sands are not. I also have not come across ANY ill effects from the use of silica sand, as opposed to problems resulting from metals within the sand from other sources (black beauty springs to mind, "Black beauty sand is actually Metallic Slag from the manufacturing
of copper." obviously not good for inverts and I would suspect not great for fish)
Perhaps I've just been lucky but I've had no problem with the sand blasting sand as far as being sharp. I have cory cats with this in the tank and they do burrow down thru it, especially those black schultzi I have.
I know that Ian Fuller, the cory expert, uses play sand with his and that is silica sand as well if I'm not mistaken. I think but am not positive that the torpedo beach is silica also and that is recommended for the more delicate fish where low ph is an issue like altums. That is what is in my tank with the altum, ufy and deckeri cory cats.
I do have a few tanks with plants that are doing ok. While I greatly admire those planted show tanks I don't have the amount of time to devote to maintaining one so for now I have to settle for pretty fish and ratty looking plants. :wink:
I know that Ian Fuller, the cory expert, uses play sand with his and that is silica sand as well if I'm not mistaken. I think but am not positive that the torpedo beach is silica also and that is recommended for the more delicate fish where low ph is an issue like altums. That is what is in my tank with the altum, ufy and deckeri cory cats.
I do have a few tanks with plants that are doing ok. While I greatly admire those planted show tanks I don't have the amount of time to devote to maintaining one so for now I have to settle for pretty fish and ratty looking plants. :wink:
- Messages
- 593
- Location
- Sydney, NSW Australia
Hi All,
Agree with all of the comments. In Sydney we also get great quality silica sand from the pool shops. This sand is also very cheap to buy and clean. They use this fine sand for pool filters and sand filters. Just another suggestion on where on can get sand from. cheers jk :biggrin:
Agree with all of the comments. In Sydney we also get great quality silica sand from the pool shops. This sand is also very cheap to buy and clean. They use this fine sand for pool filters and sand filters. Just another suggestion on where on can get sand from. cheers jk :biggrin:
- Messages
- 703
- Location
- Clarkston, WA
I don't know of a safer material for aquarium sand than silica sand, quartz sand, SiO2. Flint is a form of quartz as far as I know as is agate and most petrified wood rocks.
It is much like worrying about having the silica from our aquarium glass panes dissolving to worry about silica from sand getting into solution to me.
It is much like worrying about having the silica from our aquarium glass panes dissolving to worry about silica from sand getting into solution to me.
- Messages
- 15
- Location
- FL
what about crushed wallnut shell then sand for a cockatoo and live plant breeding tank???
- Messages
- 92
- Location
- Bensalem, PA
silica sand
If you have seen a growth of brown algae (diatoms) in your tank, then you have had problems as a result of silicates in the water. This provides the main food source for this stuff. Silicates can come in with your tap water. They can also be released by using substrates such as silica sand.
Mark
If you have seen a growth of brown algae (diatoms) in your tank, then you have had problems as a result of silicates in the water. This provides the main food source for this stuff. Silicates can come in with your tap water. They can also be released by using substrates such as silica sand.
Mark
- Messages
- 41
are you going to say that using glass tanks causes diatom algae?? glass is made of silica as well.
short of using RO/DI water, there will always be a minute proportion of silicates within the water,
the amount of silica released by the substrate will be near undetectable without highly specialised lab equipment. even standard lab tests would be rather unlikely to be able to detect any change.
silica sand is one of the safest choices for substrate, with no impact on water conditions.
- Messages
- 2,768
- Location
- Wiltshire UK
Silica sand - Silicon dioxide
Hi all,
I can answer some of this, as I trained as a botanist, and I used to maintain algal cultures as part of my job. I'd agree with all the posters on this, as "Anubias Design" says silica is soluble in water from both silicon dioxide ("sand") and fused silica ("glass" or "amorphous non-crystalline silicon dioxide" if you wish). It's solubility is 0.12 g in 1 litre of water at 25oC, and that is how diatoms are able to build their cases ("frustules"), by extracting the dissolved silicon from the water, (they photosynthesise to feed like any other "plant").
When you put water into a new tank (or add silica sand substrate) you might get a brief diatom bloom, as diatoms are incredibly good at extracting silicon from water, however I'd agree with Apistomaster and Psychotic madman that in practical terms silica sand is one of the safest choices for substrate, with no measurable impact on water conditions.
cheers Darrel (in Bath)
Hi all,
I can answer some of this, as I trained as a botanist, and I used to maintain algal cultures as part of my job. I'd agree with all the posters on this, as "Anubias Design" says silica is soluble in water from both silicon dioxide ("sand") and fused silica ("glass" or "amorphous non-crystalline silicon dioxide" if you wish). It's solubility is 0.12 g in 1 litre of water at 25oC, and that is how diatoms are able to build their cases ("frustules"), by extracting the dissolved silicon from the water, (they photosynthesise to feed like any other "plant").
When you put water into a new tank (or add silica sand substrate) you might get a brief diatom bloom, as diatoms are incredibly good at extracting silicon from water, however I'd agree with Apistomaster and Psychotic madman that in practical terms silica sand is one of the safest choices for substrate, with no measurable impact on water conditions.
cheers Darrel (in Bath)
