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Rio Orinoco biotope questions

ButchAZ

New Member
Messages
13
I see lots of biotope tanks with plants in them. It's my understanding from what I'm reading that the blackwater areas of the Rio Orinoco watershed are mainly free of aquatic plants. Are folks just taking artistic license, or am I missing something??

For those with planted blackwater tanks, are you running CO2 injection?

Thanks!
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
11,174
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Artistic license is my guess. Every blackwater biotope I've seen (in Peru & Colombia) had submerged terrestrial grasses along the shore and some emergent bog plants. Other than that, only algae coating branches. Here's a picture of an intrepid explorer (Tom C) checking out a blackwater stream near Leticia, Colombia.
upload_2018-9-19_10-36-34.png
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,744
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
I see lots of biotope tanks with plants in them. It's my understanding from what I'm reading that the blackwater areas of the Rio Orinoco watershed are mainly free of aquatic plants. Are folks just taking artistic license, or am I missing something??
Yes and no, they don't have water plants in quite the same way that a European or North American river might, but they are may have floating plants, like Water Lettuce (Pistia stratiotes), if there is enough light.

Fish are collected at lower water when the forest is dry and fish are restricted to small water bodies, often choked with leaves and fallen wood, but when the rainy season comes the forest floor will flood and the fish will disperse through the flooded forest. An appropriate biotope would consist of silica sand (blackwater streams flow across base poor substrates), covered in structural leaf litter and twigs, with a surface layer of floating plants and emergent palms and aroids etc.

If you look at TomC's travelogue pages from the W. Amazon basin in Peru you can see the <"types of water body"> where they collected Apistogramma from.
For those with planted blackwater tanks, are you running CO2 injection?
No even if you have submerged plants, they can only make use of additional CO2 if other nutrients are available. Black-water has virtually no ions, of any description, in it.

Additionally the pH depression you get from CO2 addition is slightly different from the pH reduction you get from humic and tannic substances.

cheers Darrel
 

Tom C

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
582
Location
Norway
The waters of Orinoco and the Colombian Rio Negro mostly look like this:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


Some of these places we could find the amazing miniature chameleon-tetra Ammocryptocharax elegans. When it lies on a plant leaf, it is completely green. When scared, it immediately turns brown spotted, like here:

resizeimage.aspx


The green in the water is usually not waterplants:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


Here we collected Apistogramma diplotaenia:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


and here I collected 11 Apistogramma diplotaenia before breakfast:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


Going up small blackwater streams

resizeimage.aspx


we some places spotted a little green below the surface:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


This one just jumped up into the boat:

resizeimage.aspx


These look more like water plants than terrestrial plants, to me:

resizeimage.aspx


and there were also plants that looked very much like waterplants!
In water with a pH of more or less 4, and a conductivity of less than 10 microSiemens/cm!

resizeimage.aspx
 

ButchAZ

New Member
Messages
13
Wow Tom, thanks!! Those are GREAT photos! That one little guy looks pretty vicious. Do you know what species that is? Looks like a barracuda.

Those will be helpful for my next tank!
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,744
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
Wow Tom, thanks!! Those are GREAT photos! That one little guy looks pretty vicious. Do you know what species that is?
They certainly are great photos.

The fine leaved plant, in the last photo, looks like Mayaca fluviatilis, the grassy leaved plant may be a grass, but there is no real way of telling.

The plant with the bifid leaf below (and the plant at the top of the photo), are seedling palms (Arecaceae), and the grassy leaved plant looks like it may be a Sedge (Carex sp.), but that would be guess-work.

resizeimage.aspx


Some-one will do the exact species of "toothy" fish, but it is a "Dog Characin", something like <"Acestrorhynchus falcatus">.

cheers Darrel
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
I've seen Mayaca (the feathery plant in Tom's last photo) a few times in the Sandhills region of North Carolina, in low-conductivity blackwater stream habitats that look pretty similar to Tom's photos. But it was rooted in organic-rich sandy mud near the stream bank, not in plain sand. The grassy-looking plants could be true grasses, sedges, pipeworts, rushes, pondweeds ... lots of possibilities. Here's a pondweed (Potamogeton) from a blackwater creek in Hope Mills, NC that I first thought was a grass. Water was very low at the time and this part of the stream bed was exposed.
 

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lexi

Member
Messages
40
Location
Oregon, USA
The link to Tom's travelogue isnt working for me and the picture links are broken. I know this is an old post, but I wish I could see them!
 

Tom C

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
582
Location
Norway
The link to Tom's travelogue isnt working for me and the picture links are broken. I know this is an old post, but I wish I could see them!
@lexi: I had to change the address to my site from apisto.sites.no to tomc.no, because somebody hijacked the control over sites.no.
That's why so many old links to my site don't work.

I have changed some links to my site, and the links to photos in my own post, so here you are, especially for you :);

Here is something Darrel (dw1305) wrote, now with a working link: "...If you look at TomC's travelogue pages from the W. Amazon basin in Peru you can see the <"types of water body"> where they collected Apistogramma from."

And again, something Darrel (dw1305) wrote, now with a working link to the picture:
"The plant with the bifid leaf below (and the plant at the top of the photo), are seedling palms (Arecaceae), and the grassy leaved plant looks like it may be a Sedge (Carex sp.), but that would be guess-work."
resizeimage.aspx



Here is my own post, with the photos:

The waters of Orinoco and the Colombian Rio Negro mostly look like this:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


Some of these places we could find the amazing miniature chameleon-tetra Ammocryptocharax elegans. When it lies on a plant leaf, it is completely green. When scared, it immediately turns brown spotted, like here:

resizeimage.aspx


The green in the water is usually not waterplants:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


Here we collected Apistogramma diplotaenia:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


and here I collected 11 Apistogramma diplotaenia before breakfast:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


Going up small blackwater streams

resizeimage.aspx


we some places spotted a little green below the surface:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


This one just jumped up into the boat:

resizeimage.aspx


These look more like water plants than terrestrial plants, to me:

resizeimage.aspx


and there were also plants that looked very much like waterplants!
In water with a pH of more or less 4, and a conductivity of less than 10 microSiemens/cm!

resizeimage.aspx
 

Kev777

New Member
Messages
13
Hey Tom, awesome site!!! I am in South Africa and started my collection now. Apistos are very scarce here, but time will tell. I can't wait to go through your site in detail!!! Great work
 

lexi

Member
Messages
40
Location
Oregon, USA
@lexi: I had to change the address to my site from apisto.sites.no to tomc.no, because somebody hijacked the control over sites.no.
That's why so many old links to my site don't work.

I have changed some links to my site, and the links to photos in my own post, so here you are, especially for you :);

Here is something Darrel (dw1305) wrote, now with a working link: "...If you look at TomC's travelogue pages from the W. Amazon basin in Peru you can see the <"types of water body"> where they collected Apistogramma from."

And again, something Darrel (dw1305) wrote, now with a working link to the picture:
"The plant with the bifid leaf below (and the plant at the top of the photo), are seedling palms (Arecaceae), and the grassy leaved plant looks like it may be a Sedge (Carex sp.), but that would be guess-work."
resizeimage.aspx



Here is my own post, with the photos:

The waters of Orinoco and the Colombian Rio Negro mostly look like this:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


Some of these places we could find the amazing miniature chameleon-tetra Ammocryptocharax elegans. When it lies on a plant leaf, it is completely green. When scared, it immediately turns brown spotted, like here:

resizeimage.aspx


The green in the water is usually not waterplants:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


Here we collected Apistogramma diplotaenia:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


and here I collected 11 Apistogramma diplotaenia before breakfast:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


Going up small blackwater streams

resizeimage.aspx


we some places spotted a little green below the surface:

resizeimage.aspx


resizeimage.aspx


This one just jumped up into the boat:

resizeimage.aspx


These look more like water plants than terrestrial plants, to me:

resizeimage.aspx


and there were also plants that looked very much like waterplants!
In water with a pH of more or less 4, and a conductivity of less than 10 microSiemens/cm!

resizeimage.aspx

Oh wow! Thank you Tom! Stunning pictures. They remind me so much of the months I spent in Brazil. Of course I was 15 and not paying much attention to fish at the time. We traveled up the Madeira on boats very much like the ones in your pictures. The rain storm we traveled in was thankfully while on one of the bigger boats with a roof, but so much wind blew in the sides we still weren't dry. Lol 34 years later I still have one of those hammocks strung up in the garage for when the kids won't leave me alone. ;) You're pictures brought back very good memories and of course the fish and habitat information were so neat to see! Corydoras are my other fish obsession so it was nice to see some of those featured too. Your website is a wealth of information!
 

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