Panduro pairing wait or give up

[Mike Wise]

Do you think the spawning fail was due to water poor quality?

Probably not the water quality, but the water values (pH, ec).

Woul the male spawn again with the same female provided no other female is present?

Often they will attempt to spawn again once the female fills with eggs. Until then the female is only tolerated. I've found with many nijsseni-group species that after 3 or 4 unsuccessful spawns they are not interested in breeding with each other.

 

[shamedonor]

well some morning update:
Yesterday I again changed 50% of water (again pure RO), this time I did not add any of new botanicals. Also I removed all but one small (growing java moss on it) rocks. The new EC is 56mS/cm (before it was 98 original and 76 after the first WC). Will see what will happen.

Some observations:
the a. panduro male that I were told to be wild was much more stressed than the domestic bred female. She just kept to explore the bottom as if nothing happened. He was running up and down in a corner as he does every time he is stressed. In the morning he behaves much less nervous.

Also some of my rasbora were stressed too. I expected them to lay eggs after two large water change but today morning they keep swimming, a couple of females are like a drum, but no eggs under the leaves in the morning. Do you know how long they could swim like that before laying?

 

[shamedonor]

Probably not the water quality, but the water values (pH, ec).

Often they will attempt to spawn again once the female fills with eggs. Until then the female is only tolerated. I've found with many nijsseni-group species that after 3 or 4 unsuccessful spawns they are not interested in breeding with each other.

Just to recapitulate for you about the water: I did 2 consequent large 40-50% WC with the pure RO previous two days. Will do it again once or twice but with smaller portions.

Today I see much less aggression from male's side. This reminds me their interaction I saw the very first days after the female introduction. After that according to your hypothesis about failed spawning they must spawn again, but this time in more appropriate water.

 

[shamedonor]

Nijsseni-group species can be choosy about breeding partners. You new female's behavior indicates that breeding occurred but was unsuccessful. Now the male is looking for another breeding partner. You don't say what kind do 20 gallon tank that you have. I also don't understand why your "RO blackwater" tank has such a high conductivity. My compatible breeding pairs readily reproduced at pH ~6.0 and 35µS conductivity.

looks like they are currently spawning or are getting ready to as the female is in breeding dress, spending a lot of time in her cave and when she is out is following the male and biting the male's tail and sometimes "dances" in front of him up and down seems to be showing her belly. The male is swiming on the perimeter of the tank and sometimes is entering the cave or wriggling his tail being his back to the cave. Very interesting behavior, unfortunately cannot see whole the scene as need to go to office today.

 

[shamedonor]

Are considered problematic because there are many deaths connected to that stuff.

What exactly do you mean? I was told the dwarf cichlids eat those worms and then have kind of constipation. Or do you mean a pathogen infection?

 

[shamedonor]

Probably not the water quality, but the water values (pH, ec).

Often they will attempt to spawn again once the female fills with eggs. Until then the female is only tolerated. I've found with many nijsseni-group species that after 3 or 4 unsuccessful spawns they are not interested in breeding with each other.

It seems a new breeding attempt is done and has failed. Yesterday the female was mostly in her coconut shell and when outside was inviting the male. Both was doing something I consider as the breeding dance. Today she is still in breeding dress but mostly outside swimming around and picking something up from the bottom and and just from time to time enters to her cave. No eggs inside.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

What exactly do you mean? I was told the dwarf cichlids eat those worms and then have kind of constipation. Or do you mean a pathogen infection?

Commercially collected Bloodworms (Chironomidae) come from grossly polluted sites, we don't know exactly what the issue is, and you can use Bloodworms you collect form clean water without any issue.

cheers Darrel

 

[shamedonor]

Hi all,

Commercially collected Bloodworms (Chironomidae) come from grossly polluted sites, we don't know exactly what the issue is, and you can use Bloodworms you collect form clean water without any issue.

cheers Darrel

Which means no matter if they are dry like tetra ones - the issue is still there. I didn't know. Thank you

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Which means no matter if they are dry like tetra ones - the issue is still there. I didn't know. Thank you

I feed live <"bloodworms"> (and black mosquito larvae) without any issues, but I've visited a lot of <"old style"> sewage works and you get absolutely huge accumulations of blood worms and tubificid true worms in the later stages of wastewater treatment.

Because these both contain haemoglobin they can survive very low oxygen levels in grossly organically polluted situations, and this is where they are commercially collected from.

Cheers Darrel

 

[shamedonor]

Hi all,

I feed live <"bloodworms"> (and black mosquito larvae) without any issues, but I've visited a lot of <"old style"> sewage works and you get absolutely huge accumulations of blood worms and tubificid true worms in the later stages of wastewater treatment.

Because these both contain haemoglobin they can survive very low oxygen levels in grossly organically polluted situations, and this is where they are commercially collected from.

Cheers Darrel

I read the live food may be dangerous as well as they say as it may become a source of bad bacteria. Do you have a culture of those worm or you purchase them from a trusted source?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I read the live food may be dangerous as well as they say as it may become a source of bad bacteria. Do you have a culture of those worm or you purchase them from a trusted source?

I don't feed the fish any live food that I haven't cultured or collected myself, but they mainly get live food.

I 'culture" Blackworms, Asellus, Crangonyx, Daphnia and Micro / Banana Worms.

Because I don't have many fish at the moment I most of the cultures are just sitting in buckets outside.

Cheers Darrel