New Apistogramma Eunotus?

[Raven]

Hi,
I'm new to apistos and fish keeping in general.

A bit of background... I've had my 37 gallon tank for a few months now. It has some tetras, some catfish, a couple of female bettas, an angel fish, a severum and a keyhole cichlid. I've had a male macmasteri in the tank for about a month. He has been doing really well but I haven't been able to get a female for him. Last weekend I decided to pick up a male and female pair of eunotus for the tank. They didn't get along very well with the macmasteri, so today I decided to trade the macmasteri in for another female eunotus. I was pretty attached to the little guy, but I decided that this was for the best.

Here's a picture of the tank, all the plants are live:

I've been lurking around the forum for a while now, been reading it whenever I was curious about something or had questions. I guess I've just reached a point where I've had too many questions, and I decided to post something.

First, our local fish store labled these as eunotus. Are they? Is there anyway to tell whether they are wild caught? Any advice about how to keep them healthy and happy would be appreciated.

Here're some pictures and more questions
The male:
That little bit of purple/red coloring near his tail, is that normal? or is that like a bruise? (I know it's kind of hard to see from this picture...)

His lip is slightly bigger on one side, is that a birth defect? or is it a wound? (It might be kind of hard to tell from this picture as well..., I think it was more pronounced when we first got him, so I am hoping it will heal up.)

The females, are they females for sure?
The 1st female, she seems to be pretty healthy. She was introduced into the tank with the male and they are getting along pretty well.

The 2nd female, she was introduced today. She seems kind of stressed out, and the 1st female is slightly bigger and will chase her around occasionally.

Sometimes her coloring is darker, like this. I am hoping that this just means she is stressed out? She is eating fine. She's swimming around the tank and picking at things. And when I put black worms in the tank she ate some of that also.

Also, there are some tiny black dots on one side of her. Is this normal? or does she have something bad? here's a picture:

Thanks for reading. I'd appreciate any information you might have!

- Raven

 

[carmylee]

Hey raven, i had a look around the net and your fish seem to be what they were called at your lfs, i found this to

Apistogramma eunotus
Adult male

Species
eunotus

Continent
South America

Location
Peru; Rio Ucayali
Locale -
A more specific area where the fish is located, supplements the region.

pH Range
6.6 - 7.6
pH Range -
A range of pH that the species thrives in. This is not to say the fish can not live outside of these values, it merely means these are what it has evolved in.
pH - Hydrogen ion concentration, how acidic or basic. Low values are more acidic while high values are more basic.

GH Range
0 - 17.1
GH Range -
A range of GH that the species thrives in. This is not to say the fish can not live outside of these values, it merely means these are what it has evolved in.
GH - Concentration of cations such as Magnesium and Calcium.

KH Range
0 - 17.1
KH Range -
A range of KH that the species thrives in. This is not to say the fish can not live outside of these values, it merely means these are what it has evolved in.
KH - Carbonate hardness, buffering capacity.

Temperature Range
76 to 82
Temperature Range -
Range of temperatures the species is known to live in. This can include extremes related to breeding situations.

Male Size
2 inch/5 cm to 2.5 inch/6.25 cm
Male Size -
The size range typical of a fully grown adult male. This would be the hobby size and not the natural size.

Female Size
1 inch/2.5 cm to 2 inch/5 cm
Female Size -
The size range typical of a fully grown adult female. This would be the hobby size and not the natural size.

Minimum tank size
10 gal. or 38L standard
Minimum Tank Size -
This is a rather strongly debated topic. The purpose here is to suggest the smallest tank one should consider for the species. In the case of something Like an Oscar, Astronotus ocellatus the recommendation would be for one subject for life. In the case of other cichlids it may be for a harem or group for life.

Diet
Omnivore
Diet -
Herbivore: feeds primarily on plants.
Omnivore : feeds on plants and animals.
Carnivore: feeds primarily on other animals.
Detritivore: feeds primarily on decaying matter.

Dimorphic
Yes
Dimorphic -
This is pertaining to physical shape differences between the sexes. One example being a nuchal hump.
Another example being rounded vs trailing fins. This does not mean size nor color as those two characteristics
are coevered elsewhere.

Dichromatic
Yes
Dichromatic -
This is pertaining to coloration differences between the sexes. One example being the Aulonocara of Lake Malawi.

Parenting
Paternal Harem
Parenting -
Maternal: the female takes care of the offspring.
Paternal: the male takes care of the offspring.
Biparental: both parents share the duties.
Paternal Harem: typically a male gaurds a territory and spawns with many females within the territory.
Maternal Harem: a female spawns with multiple males, this occures in rare situations.

Reproductive method
Cave Spawner
Reproductive method -
Ovophilus Mouth Brooder: picks up eggs.
Larvophilus Mouth Brooder: picks up wigglers/fry, more common in South America than the ovophilus.
Cave Spawner: Spawns on overhead surface inside a hole or crevice.
Hidden Substrate: spawns on plants or surfaces in areas where the eggs may not be easily seen.
Open Substrate: Lays eggs on a hard surface or in a pit with no attempt to disguise them.

Difficulty
Beginner
Difficulty -
This is a subjective scale based on the knowledge of the writer. Sure you will find exceptions to the rule, however this is the rule of thumb.

Intra-species Aggression
Mild
Intraspecies -
Aggression towards those of the same species.

Inter-species Aggression
Mild
Interspecies -
Aggression towards other species.

Juvenile Aggression
None

obviously i didnt write that lol but it might help with any caring issues you might have and also they all look pretty healthy and yes the colour change in your female is mood related...mine change all the time, the most noticeable change on a daily basis is at feeding time lol and then there is when they are in their breeding colours.

The funny lips and stuff can just be a malformation from birth but i guess it's hard to say. but the colour on your males tail is normal, he's quite pretty lol
If you want a successful spawning i would get rid of all the other fish haha when your female brings out her fry they will probs get eaten by the tankmates.

Good luck : D

Carmy

 

[Raven]

Hey, thank you for the info Carmy. Glad they seem normal!

- Raven

 

[Mike Wise]

I'll put in my 2¢. The species in the photos is A. cf. eunotus (Orange-tail/Orangeschwanz). The true (holotype population) of A. eunotus hasn't been in the hobby for decades. The lip on your dominant male looks swollen. I don't think it is a genetic defect. Hopefully it will heal. If not, it shouldn't be too much of a problem for him. Looking at the last 3 photos, I think that the top "female" is a male. I could be wrong, but the ventral fins seem too long and the black on the leading edge is not as pronounced as on normal females. Compare the pelvic fin length of the first fish with that of the second (bottom photo). The black spots seem to occur every now and then on wildcaught fish from Peru. I've had apistos live for years with much worse spotting. I wouldn't worry. Enjoy you fish and tank. Also understand that you'll eventually need to move your severums to a larger tank. A 37 is just too small for full grown specimens in a community situation.

 

[Raven]

Thank you for the information, Mike!

I will keep a watch on the severum's size, and maybe eventually move him to a bigger tank or trade him back to the fish store.

Do you have any advice about how to care for these fish? What to feed and what not to feed etc.? I've been rotating alot of different things in their diet. Live and frozen foods, flakes and pellets. etc.

I'm glad that the male's lip is only swollen and that I don't need to worry about the black spots on the female.

If the 1st "female" is actually a male, does that mean that it hasn't completely grown yet? It does look different than the other female, but her body has more orange and yellow coloring than the large male. I was told that the yellow coloring only showed up in females... It seems to be getting along with the male very well, and has only shown agression to the new female. What do these things mean?

Thanks for the help!!

- Raven

 

[briztoon]

There's no, maybe eventually about having to move the Severum. A 37 gallon tank is way to small even for a young adult Severum. A friend of mine last year upgraded from a standard 75 gallon tank to a 180 gallon tank simply becuase he felt his 8 inch rotkiel Severum had outgrown the 75 gallon tank. An adult Severum is a big fish, not just in length, but in height and bulk.

 

[Raven]

What I meant was when he got bigger, I would either trade him back to the fish store or maybe if I wanted a larger tank, then set one up and move him there... but I'm glad you care about this fish so much that you are willing to be kind of rude.

 

[jose_vogel]

I agree with Mike´s sexing (2 M and 2 F).

They´re very easy to breed.

 

[Raven]

Thanks Jose.

Can you guys explain more about the features you used to identify that top "female" as male again? I'm not sure I understand.

Thanks alot!

- Raven

 

[Mike Wise]

In this species, females have shorter ventral fins. The leading edge of these fins are black. In mature males they may have some black, but not much. The soft tips of the dorsal and anal fins of mature males are long and pointed; the dorsal tips form a serrated edge. On females the tips are shorter and more rounded. The edge of the dorsal fin is much more even. Young and subdominant males can show female coloration. It reduces aggression from the dominant male. I could be wrong, but the first 'female' looks like a subdominant male to me.

A. cf. eunotus (Orange-tail/Orangeschwanz) is a clear-/whitewater species that adapts to most normal water values. Since they are in a community tank, I wouldn't worry about what they need to successfully breed, just keep the water clean and the fish properly fed, which you seem to be doing now.

 

[Raven]

Ah. Ok. Thanks for the explanation, Mike. I'm going to observe their ventral fins some more. Last night I tried to compare both of them and thought their fins looked pretty much the same, I think in the last 2 pictures he/she just had her fins closer to her body than the 1st fish. I guess they could both be males. Or I'm just not very good at observing them. I'm going to see if I can get a better picture of the two with their fins more spread, and then you guys can tell me what you think.

Another question, the two female looking fish, the bigger one (top picture) has been slightly aggressive towards the smaller one (bottom picture), by chasing the smaller around whenever in view. Should I be worried about that? If so, what can I do to alleviate some of the agression? Should I try to introduce another female looking fish to spread the agression around? or just let them settle since they're both fairly new to the tank? or return one of them to the fish store?

Thank you!!

- Raven

 

[Mike Wise]

Another question, the two female looking fish, the bigger one (top picture) has been slightly aggressive towards the smaller one (bottom picture), by chasing the smaller around whenever in view. Should I be worried about that? If so, what can I do to alleviate some of the agression? Should I try to introduce another female looking fish to spread the agression around? or just let them settle since they're both fairly new to the tank? or return one of them to the fish store?

Thank you!!

- Raven

Aggression among cichlids is not uncommon. Each is trying to establish a territory. Adding a new fish, as you did already, just causes a 'realignment' of territories. Usually when adding new cichlids, hobbyists remove the resident cichlids, rearrange the aquascape, and introduce the fish altogether. They now have a new (to them) biotope and sort out new territories. If the aquarium is large enough for all members to establish a territory, then they will co-exist relatively peacefully. If not, then the loser in this needs to be removed or it will either be killed or waste away. If you don't want to rearrange your aquarium, then just keep a close eye on the fish. If one is being overly pick on, then either remove that fish or the aggressor. I don't think I'd add any more fish to your aquarium. It already has too many cichlids for its size and those Red-tail Blue Tetras will get some good size, too.

 

[Raven]

Cool. Thanks Mike for the info. I'll keep an eye on them, and if I have time this weekend I will remove some of the fish out of the aquarium.

 

[Raven]

Found Eggs today!

When I got home, I found that the female eunotus laid some eggs on the driftwood and is guarding them.

 

[MonteSS]

Congratz on the spawn. Great looking fish.

I would also reccomend re-housing the Sev.

You also may consider switching from the gravel to sand. The fish will enjoy it better and will be much easier for you to clean and keep nitrates down.

GL....Bill

 

[Raven]

Babies!

The eggs hatched last week, and the female has been vigilantly guarding some baby fish. They're very tiny and I haven't been able to take a good picture of them. I think they've either been dwindling in numbers or just have been very good at hiding. I counted about 6 or 7 this morning. Do you guys have any advice on taking care of them?

Thanks!

- Raven