Hi everyone, What have I got?

[TeeCee]

 

[MacZ]

Apistogramma macmasteri. All of them. Some domestic (first two pictures), some wild type, some indecisive.

 

[TeeCee]

Apistogramma macmasteri. All of them. Some domestic (first two pictures), some wild type, some indecisive.

Thanks, Boys or Girls?

 

[MacZ]

First two pictures: No idea.

Rest: All male.

 

[FishEZ]

First two pictures are also A. macmasteri, but they are the red-shouldered "Gold" form. I have 3 pairs of them, so I recognized them right away.

 

[anewbie]

First two pictures are also A. macmasteri, but they are the red-shouldered "Gold" form. I have 3 pairs of them, so I recognized them right away.

He meant no idea on the sex; the process of making some of these domestic strains make sex identification more difficult.

 

[FishEZ]

He meant no idea on the sex; the process of making some of these domestic strains make sex identification more difficult.

Oh, sorry. Not in condition to sex the first two photos. But I was at the LFS today and they had two tanks of Apistogramma viejita and they looked just like macmasteri to me. I'm not sure of the difference so will have to do more investigation.

 

[MacZ]

But I was at the LFS today and they had two tanks of Apistogramma viejita and they looked just like macmasteri to me. I'm not sure of the difference so will have to do more investigation.

You don't have to. It's widely known that domestic A. macmasteri are often falsely sold as A. viejita. And it's often on purpose to get more money out of cheap massproduced strains.

 

[PistUp]

Apistogramma macmasteri. All of them. Some domestic (first two pictures), some wild type, some indecisive.

Please can you specify which ones you see as wild type and which you are indecisive about? It will satisfy my curiosity and help my learning

 

[PistUp]

You don't have to. It's widely known that domestic A. macmasteri are often falsely sold as A. viejita. And it's often on purpose to get more money out of cheap massproduced strains.

It’s criminal, and they shouldn’t be allowed to do it!

 

[MacZ]

It’s criminal, and they shouldn’t be allowed to do it!

They technically are not allowed, because in effect it's false advertising. But nobody checks on wrong labeling in pet stores and the net worth of the damage to the individual buyer is so negligible, it's not worth taking it to court. Labeling is a general problem in stores, often this task is done by assistants with little to no experience and mainly they just copy the names in the stock lists. Once a tradename has taken foot... well, then they are stuck.
So it's always just best to select fish before even going to the store and having either a list of possible alternatives or you are able to resist the urge to buy at least something if the fish you want are not available or bad quality.

Please can you specify which ones you see as wild type and which you are indecisive about? It will satisfy my curiosity and help my learning

Last picture. If they still have to colour up, they could be domestic, if the colouration stays that way, bascially wild type. (not wild caught!)

 

[FishEZ]

Labeling is a general problem in stores, often this task is done by assistants with little to no experience and mainly they just copy the names in the stock lists. Once a tradename has taken foot... well, then they are stuck.

The actual fault for mistaken identity is not always the LFS, either, I have seen many times that the incorrect fish arrive although ordered correctly on paper. I bought 30 mascara barbs (D. asimilis) only to find out a few days after I got home that they were rohani barbs (D. rohani). The response to the mistake is that "they were sold to us as mascara barbs".

The fish I saw labeled as A. viejita are definitely macmasteri to me, but shop owner says one tank of fish was sent as viejita, the other as macmasteri. His source said 'you can tell the difference by a small black dot at the caudal peduncle', but both tanks have the dot as one sees in the last picture above. The shop owner was asking me my opinion because he couldn't believe there was an actual difference. He didn't mention if he paid more for the viejita's than for the macmasteri, but I will ask when I go back.

 

[Frank Hättich]

Attached is a table with the differences between macmasteri and viejita,. hope it helps!

 

[MacZ]

The actual fault for mistaken identity is not always the LFS, either, I have seen many times that the incorrect fish arrive although ordered correctly on paper. I bought 30 mascara barbs (D. asimilis) only to find out a few days after I got home that they were rohani barbs (D. rohani). The response to the mistake is that "they were sold to us as mascara barbs".

That's what I meant with stock lists. It can be at any stage in the chain. Importer, Wholesale, Retail... doesn't matter really. But it happens. I have narrowed down my sources to stores that buy from decent importers and wholesale. Not only no wrong IDs since, but better variety and quality. I haven't lost a fish to a disease in a while. Only old age and accidents.

The fish I saw labeled as A. viejita are definitely macmasteri to me, but shop owner says one tank of fish was sent as viejita, the other as macmasteri. His source said 'you can tell the difference by a small black dot at the caudal peduncle', but both tanks have the dot as one sees in the last picture above. The shop owner was asking me my opinion because he couldn't believe there was an actual difference. He didn't mention if he paid more for the viejita's than for the macmasteri, but I will ask when I go back.

I'm pretty sure if he admits he can't see a difference himself, he's not happy about that.

 

[FishEZ]

I'm pretty sure if he admits he can't see a difference himself, he's not happy about that.

You are spot on. He wasn't happy about it.

 

[MacZ]

Ideal moment to nudge him towards better sources if you know any.