Cacatuoides sexing - just checking

[Minders]

My male cacatuoides finally gave up the fight. I happened to be in my local LFS the other day and noticed another triple red. Younger than mine, or at least certainly a little smaller. However, the two guys in there (the son and his dad) SWEAR it's a female. I thought it was a male. Perhaps you could help out. The only things I can say about it for sure is it's got the "flame" markings on it's fins, and not just red bits like my current female, and it's pectoral fins are just yellow. No black at all. Do all females have the black on their fins? Your help would be appreciated.

 

[Mike Wise]

With domestic strains, one is never sure if the females will have black edging on the pectoral fins. I would look to see if the fish (I assume it is ~1½"/3.5 cm) has a squared off (truncate) back edge on the caudal fin & if it has slightly extended spines on the front of the dorsal fin. If it does, it most likely is a young male. If the fish is larger than 2"/5 cm, and does not have visibly extended dorsal spines & tips on the caudal fin, then it is most likely a female.

 

[Csababá]

is it a female?

Hi,
I'm new here. Pls, forgive me if I make any mistake, just tell me.
I bought a cacatuoides and in the store it looked like a female (the only one). After 2 days I'm not sure about it. On the first day my male was interested in her but now he chases it like he does it with my other true female. Actually the real female shows agression to it as well. At the moment it hides in a cocnut shell.
Can you take a look at the pics and help me? Thanks a lot.
(if this post is not in the right topic, pls, tell me and move it, thx)

 

[a.d.wood]

Hi,

Hi there,

Just tweaked the URL so that when you click on the link above it shows the full image rather than a thumbnail.

Looking at them, not much to give away when sexing. I think though possibly a sub-adult male. The main reason for this is when looking at the lower jaw, just looks to 'heavy set' when compared with my females.

Andrew

 

[Csababá]

Thank you very much.
Do the others share his opinion?

 

[bigbird]

Morning,

Tend to agree, looks like a male.
Very young though.

cheers jk :biggrin:

 

[Csababá]

Thanks a lot. I'm sad to hear that since I wanted to get another female for my adult male http://kepfeltolto.hu/i/?152365 who is not much larger than the questioned one.
What do you think about this one?
http://kepfeltolto.hu/i/?61159
http://kepfeltolto.hu/i/?61163
http://kepfeltolto.hu/i/?61162 right

 

[bigbird]

ok can you get a photo with the fins extended.
I must say this one does look more like a young female, but need more pics.

please send.
cheers jk :biggrin:

 

[Csababá]

Thx. I don't think I can make good photos. My tank is planted, its shy and it's impossible to take it out without ruining everything there.
Maybe time will bring the answer. Or do "not dominant" (what's thet term for it?) males grow color and long fins anyway?

 

[Csababá]

mirror

I've read about the mirror test. My fish attacked the mirror, but the attack reminds me on how my real female attacked the newcomer with open gills. How does a male react to its mirror image?

 

[Csababá]

I separated the dominant male to make some rest for the other two.

I wanted to buy another female because my "old" one didn't want to breed with my new male, although she did it with my previous. Is it possible that the new male is not good enough for the female? Or is it a problem, that the new male arrived later than the old female? Anyway, what's the optimal sex ratio by cacatuoideses?

Another interesting thing is that the female is chasing the new, sub-adult male as well. Why is it? Does she think that the newcomer is a female, because it doesn't have the color of a male? Do they decide only by color?

There are some hiding places and some plants in the tank but no matter where the sub(-dominant)male hid, he was found by the do(minant)male.
The female usual hiding place is the wood/root (how do you call it) where she had laid her eggs.

 

[Mike Wise]

It appears that your original female considers the entire aquarium her territory. She is trying to drive the other cacatuoides out of it. You might want to remove the dwarfs, rearrange the decorations, and reintroduce them together. This will be like adding them all to a new tank without any pre-established territories.

 

[Csababá]

Thank you. It's not too easy the redecorate since it's only a 96L tank with plants that were hard to "root" but I think over the possibilities.

 

[Mike Wise]

You might want to take all of the A. cacatuoides out of the tank for a week. Then add them all at the same time. After a week they probably will not recognize their old territories.

 

[Apistomaster]

Hi Casababa,
Your fish are difficult to sex from the set of photos but I'm also leaning towards female in my attempt to sex them.

I have something similar but in the reverse. I have females that rival males in color and even down to colorful bilobated form caudal fins. Only close scrutiny of the dorsal fin to verify the presence of elongated anterior dorsal spines for males verses the more even lengths of the dorsal anterior spines and rays typical of female distinguishes a small male from a good sized well colored female.

In either case, the easiest way to establish a new and more even place in the pecking order is to carefully remove the fish and make some major changes in the locations of prominent territorial boundaries formed by any spawning caves, rocks and or wood. You are trying to avoid damage to your plants since they are well established and that is perfectly understandable.

Everyone has their favorite way to remove fish from planted tanks so I will share one of my methods and you can decide if it is workable for you.
1. Lower the water level until the tank is 1/3 full.
2. Remove all rocks, flower pots, wood and any equipment that the fish can hide behind.
3. Drive all the Apistos to one side and place a large net that spans most of the width of the tank and as flat as possible to the substrate at one end.
4. Use your free hand or a smaller net to drive the fish over the broader low lying net then lift it up with any of the Cichilds you can catch,
5. Repeat until they have all been removed.
Your plants should not be damaged, the fish will be disoriented and before the fish are replaced, change the locations of the objects you removed.
This is the lowest impact method I know of to reduce aggression.
Only having some other tanks in which you can try different combinations will you be able to effect much more change than Mike advises. This is sometimes what works best but try the least difficult way first.

 

[Csababá]

Thank you very much!
At first I separated the male in the community tank (inside) but the older female attacked the new one. Then I put the "old" male and female into a very small tank with lots of hiding place. I did it partly in the hope of breeding and partly to separate them from the newcomer. First they danced but nothing seriously has happen for 2-3 days now. Usually the male rushes the female whe he sees her, but sometimes the female tries to invite him into a pot but he does nothing.
Than the newcomer in the comm tank gained confidence and softly terrorized all the other fish so I separated her the same way (inside, a net cube for livebearers) as I did it with the male. I will put some extra coconut "shell" or hiding place and mix the old ones and introduce the 3 cacas tomorrow or the nex day.
Do you think I should buy another female? My tank is 80 cm long, 30 cm wide and 40 cm deep (br 96 L). I have some Cories, guppies, ancistruses.
I say female for the newcomer since she's very female like alone, although she was interested in her mirror image. She wanted to bite it I think. I think a male would do posing in that situation.
Thanks for any replies before and furthermore as well.
(Thanks for the catching tricks as well.)