Apistogramma rositae

[rasmusW]

small update, here.
the first small batch of fry got lost, but she is guarding her second batch now. not sure how many there are as she likes to keep them from middle to back of the tank.

here is a few pictures of the tank as it looks today.

-r

 

[illumnae]

Very nice tank! My fry are still with the parents and growing well. The dad still tries to scare off the uaupesi through the glass in the adjacent tank

 

[rasmusW]

Hi all!

Small question… -since my beautiful pair keep on breeding (small fry popping up here and there ), i wanted to hear what temperature should i use to get mostly equal sexes. I keep it at 26 c. Since i read thats a pretty good number for most apisto.

-might also just be a question of trial and error…

-r

 

[Apistonaut]

Typically 78-79F, or 26C.

At 23-24C, I had about 3:1 F:M from my Panduro. Too cold.

 

[anewbie]

Typically 78-79F, or 26C.

At 23-24C, I had about 3:1 F:M from my Panduro. Too cold.

Weird - my nijjensi at around 75 which is 23 was mostly males; though maybe nijjensi are a cooler water fish ?

 

[KenL]

Weird - my nijjensi at around 75 which is 23 was mostly males; though maybe nijjensi are a cooler water fish ?

Or maybe it is not an exact science and just luck?
I wonder what the ratios are in wild populations.

 

[Apistonaut]

Weird - my nijjensi at around 75 which is 23 was mostly males; though maybe nijjensi are a cooler water fish ?

I can't imagine they are too far apart. I had a bit of a complaint from my local fish store from the excess. I gave a lot of females away to our local state club members who were running softwater, even.

Panduro were very straightforward to sex, for me.

Aromatase is upregulated or more stable under ~76f and favors estrogenic development. Biochemically, their sex parity is probably identical for the entire nijjensi complex.

Someone who feels more qualified than me might have to pitch in.

 

[Apistonaut]

I'm also going to consider that this was my first batch. I fed live food in varying amounts to get a feel for nitrogen, since I had such a large clutch. Live baby brine shrimp supplemented by dust-like fry powder. I quickly switched to BBS only, they did not put any bulk on from prepared food that early.

At around 2-5 months, I made a great effort to get them onto flake and higher quality micro-pellet. They really didn't care for it.

From what I've just read, it looks like calorie limitation early on can stunt androgenic development dramatically.

I also had 1-2 juvenile males that developed extremely quickly. I heard early and consistent male presence can skew the parity towards female as well.

Other than nitrogen, I've never found overfeeding live baby brine shrimp to be a problem. In my observation, the fry simply become full and lethargic for about 8-12 hours.

 

[Mike Wise]

Temperature is the primary determinant in sex ratios for apistos, but pH does have a subordinate effect. pH effects vary with the species. I prefer to breed at a slightly lower temperature than 79°F/26°C because I prefer to get more females. I have found that males will out-compete females for food and I eventually end up with too many males.

 

[rasmusW]

Temperature is the primary determinant in sex ratios for apistos, but pH does have a subordinate effect. pH effects vary with the species. I prefer to breed at a slightly lower temperature than 79°F/26°C because I prefer to get more females. I have found that males will out-compete females for food and I eventually end up with too many males.

What temperature do you breed your species at? Or do you vary depending on the species, like you mentioned?

-r

 

[Apistonaut]

Temperature is the primary determinant in sex ratios for apistos, but pH does have a subordinate effect. pH effects vary with the species. I prefer to breed at a slightly lower temperature than 79°F/26°C because I prefer to get more females. I have found that males will out-compete females for food and I eventually end up with too many males.

Temperature regulates the expression of the ovarian-aromatase -- I am curious how severe temperature anomalies affect the sex ratios in the wild or if it's even perceivable in large populations.

Are Cichlidae known to react to the sex ratio in their population and be discriminate about what temperature they spawn at instinctually?

Effect of water temperature and food availability on growth performance, sex ratio and gonadal development in juvenile convict cichlid (Amatitlanianigrofasciata) - PubMed

Temperature and food availability are key drivers of growth and reproductive development in fishes, but information on how they interact is poorly understood. This study investigates the effects of water temperature and food availability on growth, sex ratio and gonadal development of the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

At 29C, ratio was 5:1 males
At 26C, it was roughly 1:1 males
At 32C, it was 2:3 males, strangely. I'm sure 90f had some detrimental effect. Androgen might degrade at that point and the excess of females might be underdeveloped.

 

[anewbie]

My general routines with frys i want to raise is to feed them bbs for the first 3 to 5 weeks 2 to 4 times a day (usually i try for 3 or 4).

The nijjensi are a different story - and i neither realized she bred nor gave them bbs - they didn't seem to care and have done fairly well. Sadly both parents jumped when i left the lid open for an hour (which is really strange in itself since i had not had jumpers for several years and don't even have a lid on one aquarium); by then the f1s were maybe 2 months old and now i hope i have several pairs as i always had a soft spot for nijjensi (even if they are relatively common); these kids are much better behaved and don't jump (i hope).

 

[Apistonaut]

My general routines with frys i want to raise is to feed them bbs for the first 3 to 5 weeks 2 to 4 times a day (usually i try for 3 or 4).

The nijjensi are a different story - and i neither realized she bred nor gave them bbs - they didn't seem to care and have done fairly well. Sadly both parents jumped when i left the lid open for an hour (which is really strange in itself since i had not had jumpers for several years and don't even have a lid on one aquarium); by then the f1s were maybe 2 months old and now i hope i have several pairs as i always had a soft spot for nijjensi (even if they are relatively common); these kids are much better behaved and don't jump (i hope).

One of my favorite complexes for no particular reason. They seem like prolific breeders, easy to sex, and less "Bassy" coloration.

Love them!

 

[Phil_1983]

With my A. Baenschi i got lots of males at 27°C - 28°C (summer time made it a little warmer) and pH around 5,5 some years ago.

 

[Mike Wise]

What temperature do you breed your species at? Or do you vary depending on the species, like you mentioned?

-r

I keep my fish room at 76°F (~24.5°C). Lower tanks are very slightly cooler than upper tank but not by much. The only variations are the water in the tanks. Some are softer than others.

 

[Mike Wise]

Temperature regulates the expression of the ovarian-aromatase -- I am curious how severe temperature anomalies affect the sex ratios in the wild or if it's even perceivable in large populations.

Are Cichlidae known to react to the sex ratio in their population and be discriminate about what temperature they spawn at instinctually?

Effect of water temperature and food availability on growth performance, sex ratio and gonadal development in juvenile convict cichlid (Amatitlanianigrofasciata) - PubMed

Temperature and food availability are key drivers of growth and reproductive development in fishes, but information on how they interact is poorly understood. This study investigates the effects of water temperature and food availability on growth, sex ratio and gonadal development of the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

At 29C, ratio was 5:1 males
At 26C, it was roughly 1:1 males
At 32C, it was 2:3 males, strangely. I'm sure 90f had some detrimental effect. Androgen might degrade at that point and the excess of females might be underdeveloped.

Römer & Beißenherz 1996 paper, "Environmental determination of sex in Apistogrammai (Cichlidae) and two other freshwater fishes (Teleostei)" gives their detailed methods and results.

Also Römer wrote a paper dealing with observations of apistos in the wild. He determined that dominant females chose locations where sex ratios were roughly equal while less dominant females were relegated to less optimal places. Those in cooler locations would produce more females, while those in warmer sites produced more males. The net effect was that roughly equal numbers of both sexes were produced.

 

[rasmusW]

Römer & Beißenherz 1996 paper, "Environmental determination of sex in Apistogrammai (Cichlidae) and two other freshwater fishes (Teleostei)" gives their detailed methods and results.

Also Römer wrote a paper dealing with observations of apistos in the wild. He determined that dominant females chose locations where sex ratios were roughly equal while less dominant females were relegated to less optimal places. Those in cooler locations would produce more females, while those in warmer sites produced more males. The net effect was that roughly equal numbers of both sexes were produced.

Interesting.

-r

 

[rasmusW]

I got another question for you all.
Are there any early on sex determination on rositae?
I remember my baenschi male juviniles would get a faint red seam on their caudal fin pretty early. It probably wasn’t a 100% valid indicator, but it was fairly close.

-r

 

[anewbie]

I suppose it is species specific but typically the females will bite my fingers and the males will run and hide.

 

[rasmusW]

I suppose it is species specific but typically the females will bite my fingers and the males will run and hide.

Never tried that.

-r