Apistogramma Agassizii

[Mike Wise]

Personally, I'd wait until after the vacation to add any fish, especially if you don't have anyone with experience taking care of the tank while you're gone.

 

[TuvaM]

I am a student, and I live quite far away from home. So we are talking me going away every christmas and every summer. At christmas there will be about 2 weeks without waterchange, don't know about summer. Probably about the same.

 

[Siggi]

Wow. Finally - pictures!!
Very nice!
My suggestion: Harigrass in the front, left and right - cut it short when planting and it will normally stay short...
A few Anubias attached at the base of the root/wood and moss tied to it in various places.
Some stem plants (e.g. Bacopa) at the back to finish.
What you have to the left looks like hairgrass... Trim it shorter and pull it to the front and you can gat a nice carpet...

 

[TuvaM]

What I have on the left is Echinodorus Tenellus. I will stick with the plants I already have. Just add some more Tenellus, Hydrocotyle Leucocephala, E. Bleheri. Maybe some Hydrocotyle Verticillata. Nice suggestions though, for some other tank.

 

[Siggi]

I was taking the pics on the cellular phone - small image, looked like hairgrass... I can see it isn't...
Sorry.
You can get moss for free at a LFS, if it's just a few strands. It'll take a while before you have enough to be visually worthwhile, but if you tie it to the roots and tie it back up every time you trim it, it won't be so long as you might think...
The hydrocotyle can be planted in the substrate and will almost make a carpeting effect.

If you aren't leaving the tank before X-mas, my guess is it will be more than enough time for you to have a good sense of what's going on in the tank - biologically. You'll have a good idea about your filter and how the ceramic medium is doing:

• Don't add any more ammonia - if the plants are from a cycled tank, the de-nitrifying bacteria they have on their surface should be enough to start cycling your aquarium.
• Add the ceramic media from the LFS. If it's new, the plants' bacteria will colonize the ceramic medium - if it's from a cycled tank, GREAT!
• Add the oto's you already have - wait a week, measure for ammonia and nitrates and see if there is any spike in either. If so - you'll have to cycle with ammonia for some weeks after all; if there is no spike in neither ammonia nor nitrates, wait another week and add the H. erythrozonus
• Wait another week, measure again - if still no spike in ammonia or nitrates, trim your plants, give it another week and add a pair of apistos

Now you know why 'Yoda says: You must learn patience' ;-)

 

[TuvaM]

Honestly, I think I will continue with the ammonia. It doesn't make sense to me that the plants alone will be sufficient enough to colonize the filter. If you have and article on behalf on that method, I would like to read it. And I don't have any oto's now, I just have that one tank.
I think I will finish what I started with the ammonia, and when I'm sure the filter is cycled, I will add the tetras. Later on apistos and otos, as they require more stable parameters.

 

[Siggi]

I think I will finish what I started with the ammonia, and when I'm sure the filter is cycled, I will add the tetras. Later on apistos and otos, as they require more stable parameters.

Oops - I had the impression you already had oto's in the tank.
If you dont have any fish you are doing what is traditionally called a fishless cycle.
If you add just a few drops of ammonia once or twice a day you will be cycled in 'no-time' - and believe me: your plants and the bacteria they carry on their surface will be very important.
In a weeks time make a 24-hour interval without adding ammonia and after that measure for ammonia and nitrates - you'll be surprised

 

[TuvaM]

Oh okay, then I get what you wrote in the last post
I am adding doses of 0,5 ml of ammonia when I see the levles are lower than 2 mg/l, so that it reaches 4-5mg/l. The trend at the moment is that the levels are dropping with about 1mg/l per day. I don't have a test for nitrite, but I'm guessing it is sky-high right now. I have ordered a test for both nitite and nitrate, hopfully I will recieve it next week.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Honestly, I think I will continue with the ammonia. It doesn't make sense to me that the plants alone will be sufficient enough to colonize the filter. If you have and article on behalf on that method, I would like to read it.

That is the point really, it isn't just the filter that you are interested in, it is the combination of plants and filter.

"Plant/microbe" systems are potentially about an order of magnitude more efficient than the best "microbe only" systems for biological filtration. There isn't a single reason for this, it is a combination of factors.

As a reference <"Aquarium Nitrification Revisited: Thaumarchaeota Are the Dominant Ammonia Oxidizers in Freshwater Aquarium Biofilters"> is a good place to start, but I have a lot more papers.

If you want a much more complete discussion, from both sides of the argument, have a look at <"PlanetCatfish: Cycling question">, <"UKAPS:Best way to cycle"> and <"PlanetCatfish: Using deep gravel and bacteria">.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Oh okay, then I get what you wrote in the last post
I am adding doses of 0,5 ml of ammonia when I see the levles are lower than 2 mg/l, so that it reaches 4-5mg/l. The trend at the moment is that the levels are dropping with about 1mg/l per day. I don't have a test for nitrite, but I'm guessing it is sky-high right now. I have ordered a test for both nitite and nitrate, hopfully I will recieve it next week.

Probably best to read this one as well <"UKAPS: High Nitrate">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Siggi]

I totally agree with you, Darrel. Plants are a major (and often neglected) factor as a source for de-nitrifying bacteria.
That's why I am so confident TuvaM's tank will be cycled in 'no-time' (when compared to 6-10 weeks in a 0-up fishless cycle...) - of course it will take time, but my guess is somewhere between 2 and 4 weeks and the aquarium will be at < 10 nitrate...

 

[TuvaM]

Thanks Darrel! Will definitely read my way trough them. And I hope you are right about the time it will take my filter to be cycled Siggi, I want fish in my tank

 

[TuvaM]

Ok, so I need some advise on what to do with the following problem; SNAILS!
When I got home today I noticed that there was one which was hanging around on one of my plants. What do I do about them? Just take them out? I see some people fix it with other types of snails, but since my water is going to be soft, the probably won't thrive..

 

[Siggi]

When you start up a new aquarium it frequently has a boom of algae, while the plants don't grow and take up the available nutrients.
Snails can be good to keep the algae in check, so to begin with I wouldn't do anything to control the snails - I'd rather have snails thank algae...
If and when they become a nuisance you can get a few 'killer snails' (Antenome helena) a they will keep the other snails at bay...

 

[TuvaM]

I don't have any algae at the moment, but I guess they will turn up sooner or later. About the killer snails; won't their "house" (don't know the term in english) be broken due to the soft water? I thought they required some extra minerals in the water.

 

[Siggi]

Only in extremely soft water do snail make their shells more brittle. As long as you pick the empty shells, you can even remove some carbonates ;-)

 

[dw1305]

Hi all

I don't have any algae at the moment, but I guess they will turn up sooner or later. About the killer snails; won't their "house" (don't know the term in english) be broken due to the soft water? I thought they required some extra minerals in the water.

They didn't like live with me.

The tank was at about 100 microS (I don't measure pH or dKH, but most of the salts would have been Ca++ and HCO3-), and the Rams-horn snails never get very big before shell erosion does for them.

cheers Darrel

 

[TuvaM]

Alright, I will consider it if the problem gets worse.

I got some new plants today! Quite happy with the way it looks now. I got one mangrove root as well, but I will wait until my filter is cycled so it doesn't lower the pH too much. NH4 was at <0,05 mg/l today, very pleased with that since I added 1,3 ml ammonia yesterday. It's working!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I got some new plants today! Quite happy with the way it looks now.

The tank looks good.

I got one mangrove root as well, but I will wait until my filter is cycled so it doesn't lower the pH too much.

You don't have to worry about low pH, it is unlikely that you will go below the carbonate requirement for nitrification, partially because we know now that the nitrifying organisms that we are interested in are Archaea, and they aren't pH sensitive.

NH4 was at <0,05 mg/l today, very pleased with that since I added 1,3 ml ammonia yesterday. It's working!

Because your tank is planted you can't tell if the decline in ammonia is from the change in the filter "bacteria" community, or direct uptake by the plants. It is very likely that the majority of the ammonia uptake is by the plants, but it doesn't really matter where the nitrification is occurring. Because of the presence of the growing plants it also doesn't really matter if you continue to add the ammonia, but high levels of ammonia are though to trigger spore growth in some algae.

The other point is that if the high bioload (ammonia you've added) is being mainly processed by the filter bacteria, you are creating conditions for a bacterial community (one that occurs in alkaline high ammonia situations) that is very different form the one that will be present once the fish are added.

This is from "Aquarium Nitrification Revisited: Thaumarchaeota Are the Dominant Ammonia Oxidizers in Freshwater Aquarium Biofilters".

Although nitrification is the primary function of aquarium biofilters, very few studies have investigated the microorganisms responsible for this process in aquaria. This study used quantitative real-time PCR (qPCR) to quantify the ammonia monooxygenase (amoA) and 16S rRNA genes of Bacteria and Thaumarchaeota in freshwater aquarium biofilters, in addition to assessing the diversity of AOA amoA genes by denaturing gradient gel electrophoresis (DGGE) and clone libraries. AOA were numerically dominant in 23 of 27 freshwater biofilters, and in 12 of these biofilters AOA contributed all detectable amoAgenes. Eight saltwater aquaria and two commercial aquarium nitrifier supplements were included for comparison. Both thaumarchaeal and bacterial amoA genes were detected in all saltwater samples, with AOA genes outnumbering AOB genes in five of eight biofilters. Bacterial amoA genes were abundant in both supplements, but thaumarchaeal amoA and 16S rRNA genes could not be detected. For freshwater aquaria, the proportion of amoA genes from AOA relative to AOB was inversely correlated with ammonium concentration.

I know this is going to sound a bit funny (because this is also a forum) but the vast majority information about cycling and biological filtration on forums is practically, and conceptually, wrong.

We know that there isn't a switch between cycled and non-cycled, but that it is a continuum based on the ability to process bioload.

Nitrosomonas isn't the only, or even the primary, organism involved in nitrification.

The community of micro-organisms that converts ammonia > nitrite > nitrate, doesn't die without the presence of ammonia, and it is responsive changes in fixed nitrogen supply.

Scientists use BOD (Biochemical Oxygen Demand) as the metric for organic pollution, because if you can supply enough oxygen you can construct a system that will process a huge bioload.

cheers Darrel

 

[TuvaM]

The other point is that if the high bioload (ammonia you've added) is being mainly processed by the filter bacteria, you are creating conditions for a bacterial community (one that occurs in alkaline high ammonia situations) that is very different form the one that will be present once the fish are added.

Scientists use BOD (Biochemical Oxygen Demand) as the metric for organic pollution, because if you can supply enough oxygen you can construct a system that will process a huge bioload.

cheers Darrel

So what you are saying is that I should add oxygen instead of ammonia?