A couple questions about Rams

[baba]

Hello all, i'm new to the forum, so nice to meet you all!

I have a few questions regarding microgeophagus ramirezi. A couple months ago i aquired a female german ram for my 30 gal tank, and about a month later a got a long-finned blue ram that i believed to be male. They really weren't into each other at all until i introduced two cute little gold rams to the tank and within a couple days my female ram (Belinda) and the male ram (Giorgio) paired up! I am so happy that they like each other now. They guard their half of the tank and I think that they may want to spawn. Belinda's belly has been fierce red and I think she is getting a little fatter (but that may just be wishful thinking hehe). My question is whether or not they actually can spawn, since one is a german ram and the other is a bred variety. Another question is how i can lower the softness of my water. I read about a water pillow thing that you put in your filter that does some kind of ion exchange and gets rid of minerals that increase hardness. Does anyone have any experience with this? Also any other advice regarding rams is well received, i love these fish!

I was also thinking of getting a pair of apistogramma, not sure which variety yet. Would this be too many fish for my 30 gal tank? (4 rams, 4 lemon tetra, two corys, one male guppy).

I'm quickly becoming obsessed with having an awesome south american cichlid tank thanks for reading my post!

 

[vail94]

I have kept rams for a year or so and when my rams have spawned the best that i have gotten is wigglers then the parents eat them. There are articles on the web about how to raise the eggs separate from the parents. A cheaper way to soften your water is to use peat moss in your filter or just soak a nylon stocking pouch with peat. You can also use RO water for your water changes. Make sure to give your rams flat rocks or pieces of broken coconut shell concave facing up for spawn sites and put them in more secluded areas in the tank. If you get parents that raise fry to the free swimming stage you have made a great accomplishment. Good luck

 

[vail94]

:redface: oh ya i forgot about the fish count. unless you have a 30 gallon long it sounds like your bottom tank space is taken with the 4 rams and 2 corys. if you were to add apistos you would want to go with some of the less aggressive types. good luck

 

[Cathy G]

My question is whether or not they actually can spawn, since one is a german ram and the other is a bred variety

Yes, they will breed - they are the same species.

I read about a water pillow thing that you put in your filter that does some kind of ion exchange and gets rid of minerals that increase hardness.

The water pillow exchanges the calcium/magnesium/carbonate ions for salt. Don't use it. Rams and salt are a no go. Rams also do better in water with a low TDS (Total Dissolved Solids). When you exchange one mineral for the salt you are not lowering the total dissolved solids in your water. What is your gh and kh now?

I was also thinking of getting a pair of apistogramma, not sure which variety yet. Would this be too many fish for my 30 gal tank? (4 rams, 4 lemon tetra, two corys, one male guppy).

Yes, there would be too much pressure on the floor space for that many bottom dwellers.

Cathy

 

[RHS788]

Cathy has an article posted somewhere that is great to read on rams.

The first question is how much do you want to get them to reproduce, because that is quite a chore. The second thing is having something for them to eat once born. Read about microworms, they really work if you can stand the concept.

Do a search on german rams, and do a lot of reading.

No pillows, been there, done that. Use peat.

Lots of water changes, which is why many use smaller tanks and one pair in the tank. 10% every 4 or so days is not a bad idea.

First as mentioned, figure out the status of your water. If you are on a county/city system, they can provide the numbers.

Good luck, it is worth the patience and there is a lot to learn. I learned a lot from Cathy's advice and local club members.

Randy

 

[Apistomaster]

It is a good idea to phone your Municipal Water Supply Agency to request a complete analysis of your tap water. It is handy to have to compare with your own test results.

My own experience with Rams dates back to the late 1960's and I have been able to raise them in moderately hard alkaline water. TDS >450 ppm, pH 7.6,
KH 7 and GH also ~7-8.

I don't dispute that softer water is desirable but I do want to make the point that Rams have become so domesticated that aquarium strains, as opposed to wild caught specimens, are more tolerant of a wider range of water conditions. I suspect SLC tap water is rather similar to the above conditions and will not exclude success. Peat filtration may be helpful even though it will not have a great effect on your pH or hardness. It is the tannins and other organic chemicals it will release into the water plus the tint that Mikrogeophagus ramerizi will appreciate. Their eggs may hatch better in peat filtered water although use of peat is not a necessity. Ram spawns can be very large so even if you only have 25% survival rate that still may be 75 to 100 fry. I think that would count as a successful effort from your perspective since raising that many Rams to adults requires a good deal of aquarium(s) space.

Water cleanliness is perhaps the most important factor in achieving a good hatch. It is imperative for fry survival. Microworms are really handy for the first few days feedings then transition using both Microworms and newly hatched brine shrimp(bbs) until the majority of the fry are able to eat bbs.
You will need to become familiar with artificially hatching the eggs because most ram spawns are eaten by one or both of a pair most of the time. You may also consider using only bbs and be happy raising the strongest 5 to 10% of the up to 400 eggs that may be laid. It is still a lot of Rams.
Best of success to you.

 

[viejo]

I've raised buckets of rams ( & discus) in Utah water in the past.. Even in Moab water which is 'liquid rock' , GH around 15+ if I recall.. I will have to admit that I never did get the parents to stop scarfing up the fry @ the wiggler stage though... All of my successes with rams were due to artificial hatching although the discus generally parent-raised the fry without a hitch even though the 'experts' were maintaining that discus couldn't generate a slime coat in hard water..

 

[Apistomaster]

I grew up on the Idaho side of the Snake River which gets it's water from a different source than where I live now. I raised bred wild Blue/Brown Discus in that water which also had a GH of ~15 and pH of 7.6. That was 4 decades ago. I consider 15 GH to be moderately hard water.
I would not call any one who believed discus can't produce their skin secretions in moderately hard water an "expert.". I still raise discus. It never ceases to amaze me how many false beliefs are held as facts in the Discus part of this hobby.