Wild A.steindachneri Colony

[WuddyWoodpeckah]

Hi guys,
I'm trying out a wild colony type tank.

I got myself 6 wild A. Steindachneri (supposedly 2m 4f). I have them in a 30 gallon with 6 rasboras and 1 oto cat as dithers. Heavily planted, with two territories separated by a sight-block.

Here are the tank parameters:
pH : 6.8
GH : 4 (will probably get down to 3 soon, I added peat to the filter )

Now its wait n watch time! I'm not sure if the parameters are too harsh for the fish.
Has anybody else tried this before? Anything I should be looking out for, or should change in my tank?

Thanks!
~WW

 

[aquaticclarity]

Sounds good! Just make sure you have plenty of extra caves and other hiding places for subdominant females. I'm finding out that A. steindachneri can be a little rough on each other with out enough cover. My aquarium stain steindachneri females are bumping each other off as the dominant females take over a cave and start to "set up shop".

As a side note, I'm glad to hear someone is working with some wild stock. Wild A. steindachneri used to be VERY common and very inexpensive about 10 years ago. Because of this it was often overlooked and greatly underappriciated. It's an awsome fish and deserves to be worked with. I envy your wild stock :wink:

Jeff

 

[WuddyWoodpeckah]

Thanks Jeff! I got the steindachneri from Jim at Mainly Cichlids. They also had wild caught juruensis, but I have no more tanks!

I have 7 caves in there for now. I might put in a couple more, but that would pretty much take up all the bottom surface area, barring the huge forest of wisteria.

I'll post pictures soon, though my photography isnt the best.

Should I take out the dithers? I have 6 harlequin rasbora, an oto and a female betta.

Sandi

 

[aquaticclarity]

I'd leave the dithers. Maybe even add a few more of the rasbora. Although the rasboras and the betta will most likely be good fry preditors I find it better to get the Apistos settled in and if need be move the dithers later.

I did managed to pull a small batch of eggs out of my steindachneri tonight. The fish are still in a bare bottom tank waiting a proper home. So I figured I'd have a better chance raising fry myself then leaving them in the quarantine tank.

I look forward to seeing pictures of your fish.

Jeff

 

[Apistomaster]

Sounds good! Just make sure you have plenty of extra caves and other hiding places for subdominant females. I'm finding out that A. steindachneri can be a little rough on each other with out enough cover. My aquarium stain steindachneri females are bumping each other off as the dominant females take over a cave and start to "set up shop".

As a side note, I'm glad to hear someone is working with some wild stock. Wild A. steindachneri used to be VERY common and very inexpensive about 10 years ago. Because of this it was often overlooked and greatly underappriciated. It's an awsome fish and deserves to be worked with. I envy your wild stock :wink:

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
Interesting. I had a fish shop circa 1970 and I liked to buy assorted Apistogramma. 100 fish rarely cost more than $30 often as little as $18. I would get many Apistos that I could not identify but usually received a lot of bitaeniata, fewer agassizi but sometimes I would get "stuck" with a bunch of only one species usually Nannacara anomala but once I received a whole lot of steindachneri which annoyed me greatly at first. Times have really changed. I was buying them more for myself than business warranted. Now these things have a following and are worth something. Anyway, the steindachneri were huge by my Apistogramma standards then. I can't say if any were ever actually sold but by today's standards they were beautiful specimens. To this day they are the largest Apistogramma sp I have ever seen. I did try to breed them but was not successful nor with bitaeniata. Had some success with aggassizi, borelli, etc, but steindachneri seemed to be difficult.
I hope the OP's colony has some success. I think they may need a bit more room than most Apistos if their maximum size is any indication.

 

[WuddyWoodpeckah]

Ahh the dithers stay in, then.

Apistomaster, I suspect my 30 gallon maynot be enough, but so far there's not been much violence. The fish are pretty small for now, less than 2 inches. There's one dominant male, and the rest all look like females (or males that are late bloomers). He's coloring up real nice.

I tried the boiled/blanched peas thing yesterday, not much interest, although they did play around with the peas for a bit. Any other food ideas? I am feeding them tubifex as well.

What water params should I aim for?

 

[Rey82]

Have a bit of experience

I have bred this species of apisto recently. It doesn't take too much to get them going. Only thing that I was not experienced with was how to get the fry to grow into mature adults. They were mating every three weeks and currently have one surving fry to about an inch now.....I am guessing it is going to be a female. Be careful with the males I made a bad mistake in putting another male in the tank and he killed him within two days. I have also sucessfully bred a. hongolsi rostrich which at the moment I have seven fry about 1/2 in. Good luck with these guys they are large compared to other apistos and beautiful as well.

 

[WuddyWoodpeckah]

Update on status:

So far I have had one female turn yellow, but no fry. No spawning either.

There are 2 males, but they look different. Both of them have the lyrate tail typical of steindachneri male, maybe one of them is different because it is subdominant. I'm wondering if I should take out one set of trios of leave them alone. I see some chasing, but nothing vicious.

Pictures still in the process of being taken.

 

[Apistomaster]

Hi wuudy,
I think your water conditions are fine. The fact they bred in your quarantine is all the proof I'd need.
Looking forward to your photos.

 

[WuddyWoodpeckah]

apistomaster,

I will try to take pics on sunday. I have wigglers!!

It's Wednesday, and My camera still hasnt arrived

 

[WuddyWoodpeckah]

So wigglers are here, and I have some BBS eggs I ordered, and I need to start the culture.

I am not sure how to start it up, and how long will a tea spoon full of eggs last?

Any advice and tips are much appreciated!

 

[Mike Wise]

It depends on how many fish are you feeding. Remember adult apistos love BBS, too, so they will take much of what is fed to the fry. I feed about 1 teaspoon of brine shrimp eggs each day (15 breeding pairs + 10 tanks of miscellaneous/grow outs) If you really are interested in breeding and raising apistos, I suggest you buy eggs in the 1 pound can. Remove only enough eggs to feed your fish of a month. Seal the remaining in the can and put it in the freezer. They will survive for years frozen. When you need more eggs, take the can out of the freezer and let it set out for at least 2 hours, in order to reach close to room temperature. This avoids condensation entering the can. Moisture is what ruins the survivability of eggs. Take what you need and replace the rest in the freezer again. Methods of hatching vary considerably. It depends on your water, hatchery, etc. I use old 2 liter soda bottles and cheap synthetic marine salt (my tap water has virtually no hardness). Others use simple rock salt with or without baking soda (Na2CO3) and/or Epsom Salts (Mg2SO4).

 

[WuddyWoodpeckah]

Hi Mike, Thanks for your reply.

I have 6 juv/adult steindachneri in this 20 gallon long, alongwith a betta and 3 white clouds. So I'm guessing I should go ahead and buy a can, since I could probably use the shrimp in my other apisto tanks as well.

I have a bigger dilemma though, for now. I think I have 3 males and 3 females (could be 2 males and 4 females), and the non-breeding apistos are now confined to one quarter of the tank. Should I leave them there? There's not too much violence, and the plants give the apistos some cover.

Of course the whole point was to try a colony type tank. So I'm a tad reluctant to move them out, but I hope the fry have enough space to grow up

 

[Mike Wise]

There is nothing wrong with trying to make a breeding colony, but a 20 Long is much too small. You will need at least a 55. I try to use the rule - a brood territory at least 12"/30cm in diameter for every female and at least half that much outside each female's territory for each male. A. steindachneri are not as territorial as many apistos. If the other fish are not being attacked, but only kept at bay, you can leave them in.