Widespread disease problems

[Bunnie1978]

I am posting this because I have some apistos that are having signs of disease, but the problems seem to have originated with angelfish.

See this facebook photo album for pictures of ALL the fish that I could get. Photo #23 and on was taken today from one tank, and a full testing panel was done. The apisto population of the tank is just a trio of Apistogramma Cacatuoides. Photos 1-23 show some rams and apistos all in a 55g tank right now as well as angelfish that are spread out in several tanks.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2097490&id=1403375997&l=8465b4183b

I would appreciate any input as to the problem, as I've been unable to solve the problem and am losing fish. I've already lost at least half of my angel breeding program!

 

[Richgrenfell]

Have you treated with anything at all?

 

[Bunnie1978]

OH, sorry I forgot to include the link to the thread for those to get up to date...
http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=21009

But to answer your question, I went through a system wide single or double dose of the parasite clear tabs, then full course of kanamycin on the affected fish for the septicemia, still have fish dying.

I've also done some salt baths and dips on various fish, with no improvement either way.

My pair of silver angelfish are swimming on their sides at the top of the water and can't seem to keep themselves down. Been like that for more than a day.

 

[Richgrenfell]

I had a large group of angels with the same symptoms and treated with a double dose of furan2, cleared it right up with losses in a few of the weaker fish. Seems you have already treated with antibiotics though. Did you lower the heat?

 

[Bunnie1978]

I did turn the heat down while treating with the antibiotics. I'm leaning more towards internal parasitic infection. What do you think?

 

[Richgrenfell]

The red at the base of the fins and sloughing of slime coat (at least that is what it looks like in the black angels) is indicative of bacterial issues. It could be a secondary issue caused by the stress of IP's I guess. What is it that has you thinking IP's?

Did they stop eating? Do you see anything hanging from the anus? Is the anus inflamed? Are they wasting away?

I have to go to work now, i'll check on this thread in the morning.

 

[Bunnie1978]

Several of them have stopped eating. Some of them are floating on their sides at the top of the water, and can't swim down. The feces is clear and slimy looking. Right after feeding with fenbendazole medicated flake, some of the feces was like white clumps incased in a slimy thing... and it hung on for a really long time. Stringy I guess.

I know there are bacterial issues, but I treated with kanamycin, a strong course of it. No affect really.

 

[Richgrenfell]

Wow it sounds like you really have a bad case going on over there. I'd treat for the parasites with prazi-pro, if I'm not mistaken you can treat the water with that. I'd also try to keep the bacteria at bay as best I could.

 

[Bunnie1978]

Thanks for the replies.
I've actually been doing that as best as I can. I'm trying to control the columnaris with salt and soft water, and the septicemia I'm kind of ignoring. I don't think either of those are killing my fish.

I actually did a treatment with the parasite clear tank buddies which has prazi, metro, fenbendazole, and acriflavine. I don't think it was strong enough or something.

 

[Bilbo]

Someone on the other forum asked you what your water parameters are.

You answered

All water parameters are perfect. Temp is 80-82. I don't have a powerful enough heater to do a heat treatment.

I use RO water......

I think I have asked this before. What is perfect? What are your water parameters?
RO water does not equal perfect water. And what do you mean you don't have a powerful enough heater? Are you not able to keep a stable temperature in your tanks or is it just you cant increase it?


In my limited experience with soft water dwarf cichlids I have found that incorrect water conditions are either fully or in part responsible for most of the illness and deaths in a tank.

 

[Bunnie1978]

On the tank with the most recent new outbreak, the parameters were:

PH 7.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
KH 1-2
GH 5-6
TDS 120

 

[tjudy]

Tough one. If it were my tank I would try metronidazol over an antibiotic or praziquantel. Prazi is great for flukes and work infestations, but mediocre (IME) on bacterial or protozoan infections. Metro will knock most protozoans off pretty quick, and is a decent gentle antibiotic. Unfortunately, metro is only active in the water for 8 hours or so, but you can dose very high without short-term problems.

I purchase concentrated metro powder from KensFish.com. I dose at the recommended amount twice a day, with a 30-50% water change everyday, just before the second dose (usually in the afernoon/evening). Leave the lights off since metro (and most meds) are light sensitive and will be lost from the water faster.

 

[Bunnie1978]

Hi, Ted!! Happy Birthday! It was a couple days ago, right?

I didn't know the meds are light sensitive!! I wish I had known that!

So, I already had some parasite clear tank buddies (prazi, metro, diflubendazole, acriflavine) and I dosed it at about 1 1/2 - 2 times the recommended dosage. I read a couple posts where people had done that with good results. I was planning on doing three treatments every other day with 25% w/c as the packaging says. Would you recommending doing it any differently???

Looking forward to your advise! Thanks!!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

In my limited experience with soft water dwarf cichlids I have found that incorrect water conditions are either fully or in part responsible for most of the illness and deaths in a tank.

Pretty much my experience as well, as soon as conditions become sub-optimal the fish become stressed and all sorts of previously under-lying problems begin to manifest themselves. It looks like you have pretty well all bases covered with the medication, so fingers crossed for you that some fish will survive. Your water parameters look very similar to mine, so I'd just keep up the water changes after things have calmed down.

best of luck Darrel

 

[Bunnie1978]

Well, just an update. I have treated twice now with the parasite clear tank buddies, and keeping them in salt at 1TBS per 10g. Most of the fish are seeming to look a little better. I am seeing clear feces with white clumps, possibly eggs. I'll be doing one more treatment tomorrow night. After that, a strong cleaning, then I'll be doing an oxytetracycline treatment to hopefully clear out the septicemia. I also just got two UV units attached on to the heavily planted tanks.

Again here is the facebook link that all the pictures are at. I've updated and added lots of pictures too.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2097490&id=1403375997&l=8465b4183b