wasting and dropsy

[fishgeek]

Any thoughts gratefully acknowledged
had a male trifasciata that has slowly wasted over 10-14 days whilst intially looking like eating, though perhaps not actually swallowing
would often spit or lose food particles through gill

Never got feacals

Treated for worms with levamisol intially
Then dosed with metronidazol impregnated food

Always seemed to behave normally , 5 days ago had erect scales on cd half of body,they resolved in 24 hrs
Last ditch was broad spec antibacterial type remedy

No other fish appeared ill (cories/hatchets/bolivian rams)

Today can not see male fish in tank , nor body in tank, is heavily planted

Female trifasciata has been looking fat and in the last 48hrs has shown mid dropsy type appearance ie erect scales , still eating very well and active

Comments please

Thanks
Andrew

 

[dfishtales]

should of used wide range parasite solution internal external and treated half strength Binox or even a formalin bath. dosages are diff w/ all the diff brands but follow directions on all treatments.i had it happen with me once on some blue faced Agissizi's lost 2 from 5 but other three survived and i still have them a year now, good luck, never give up! later!

 

[Randall]

Bloating

Hello Fishgeek,

This is a tuffy.

Bloating is commonly attributed to a bacterial infection resulting from poor water conditions (that's what my texts say anyway). The treatment is antibiotics and an improved water maintenance regime. As for wasting away, that could be bacterial as well, but can also be attributed to other causes (parasites of one kind or another).

It might be a good idea to dose with a broad spectrum antibiotic or antibiotic blend, and perform a series of water changes.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[Kenny Poh]

Hi fishgeek,

You may be right initially about your fish having some possible nematodal or protozoal infestation (hexamita, spironucleus, etc), and your choice of drugs like levamisole and metronidazole is alright.

From your description of a transient form of erect scales which went away, I'd give a differential diagnosis of a kidney dysfunction, besides an internal bacterial infection.

Levamisole and metronidazole are also known to be nephro-toxic ie. kidney toxicity, if the dosage is high or treatment period prolonged. As such, the kidney function may be premanently/temporarily impaired, resulting in fluid retention. This is known as part of an acute nephrotic syndrome.

While I'm not saying that your fish is not suffering from an internal bacterial infection for sure, the fact that they are still eating well and rather active further re-inforced my belief that the signs and symptoms do not have an infectious origin.

Well, it will usually do no harm to try a broad spectrum antibiotics as part of an elimination process, provided that dosage is within normal range.

Best of luck!

Cheers,

Kenny

 

[Kenny Poh]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that I had a similar encounter as yours.

I treated my caca pair for possible nematodal/protozoal infestation, with exactly the same drug combo you used. I prolonged the treatment period for an extra day, and my fishes developed dropsy-like signs ie. erect sales and abdominal swelling.

What I did later was to move the pair back to their original tank, and they recovered a day later.

Well, they've since spawn 4 times.

Cheers,

Kenny

 

[fishgeek]

No idea what got him in the end though he did pass away

Kenny do you specifically know that levamisole and metro are nephrotoxic in fish or is this something you have heard ancedotally?

dropsy signs will be seen with any cause of fluid accumulation in the abdomenal cavity - ascites , in mammals this can range from heart/liver and less commonly kidney disease
the scale's being erect will also occur with odema of the skin , more common in nephrotic syndromes(again transposing from mammals) and other skin inflammatry problems
I tried a crude post mortem though my pathology is poor and my fish anatomy even poorer , hence no obvious findings made

Thanks for the knowledgeable answers that were posted , i appreciate more experienced keepers opinions

 

[Kenny Poh]

Hi fishgeek/Andrew,

Hey, sorry to hear about the passing away of your fish.

Abt levamisole and metronidazole, it wasn't something I heard, but it was something I read in one of my fish pathology books, which did have a brief mention of this. If I'm not wrong, it should be a book by a German pathologist called Dr Basleer.

Well, sometimes it is hard to perform a PM on a fish that small. Besides looking out for obvious signs and symptoms, I think it'll be also useful if we can look at the tissues microscopically. Yeah, it is not always easy and convenient.

Cheers,

Kenny