The Bolivian Ram Wins

[Apistomaster]

Oké, in that case i think you have all males, cause the egg tube (still don't know the correct english word) should be visible.

The "egg tube" is called the ovipositor.

 

[wespastor]

The "egg tube" is called the ovipositor.

Where and how shall this ovipositor look? I presume it to be at the vent and/or anal fins.

 

[wespastor]

I was taking some shots of the fish yesterday. As you may know I lost one of the original six as I found it in my Filter. It jumped out through the hole there. Anyway, there are five of them left and I took these shots. I was only able to get four of the 5 fish after nearly 30 minutes of shooting.

So, without further ado, here are those 10 day shots, that is to say, after ten day in Quarantine.

It would appear that these are all Males.
Thanks for lookin’.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[henkh]

The "egg tube" is called the ovipositor.

Ah! Thanks Apistomaster. It's often hard to conversate in a language that's not the daily speaking one. Hope to remember ovipositor for future diaologues

By the way Wespastor: I really think you have all males. The one on the 3rd pic doesn't look to good to me. His belly should be full and round.

 

[wespastor]

Ah! Thanks Apistomaster. It's often hard to conversate in a language that's not the daily speaking one. Hope to remember ovipositor for future diaologues

By the way Wespastor: I really think you have all males. The one on the 3rd pic doesn't look to good to me. His belly should be full and round.

Thanks for that ... I have separated them further from the others. As you may know the fish were wild caught as far as I know. They have been in quarantine now for the last 13 days and I full expect to have them Quarantined for a full 45 day at least. I have seen no sign of disease in particular however. Being that these are all males I suspect that they are squabble over food rights ... a "pecking order" if you will.

My original purchase was six and I have lost one to jumping out through the filter so now I have these five. Of these only three seem to be doing exceptionally well as you have noted in the photo of the one and there was another that looked in a similar way some I segregated him as well.

Again thanks for the second opinion.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[henkh]

Wish luck with these remaining fish. Does your LFS have females left? Would be waste not to breeed with this fish..

 

[wespastor]

I bought all they had. It was a special order. So they have no others. I will try again soon to obtain additional fish ... woundering if I could specify female only. Time is working against me ... I believe that they only have a 2 - 3 year life span. One of them is already gone. :O

Thanks.
Best wishes,
Wes

 

[Apistomaster]

I thought they were a little young and still need to fully recover before I would say you have mostly males.
I found some I had were hard to sex until they were close to maturity but all I had were tank raised specimens.

 

[wespastor]

Well, there are differing opinions as to when this occurs. But these fish of mine seem to have all the classic signs of being male. "Males have a more pointed dorsal fin the first 3-5 spiny rays of male’s dorsal fin are elongated and longer filaments on their lyre-shaped tail fin than the females." So, it’s really hard to say yet for an absolute certainty.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[Melanochromis]

Your fish have very nice color. I like them a lot.

Regarding the "tube", it's unfortunate that ready-to-breed males will also have a tube of similar shape too, so this can be a misleading sign unless you are familiar with the fish. The dorsal extensions and caudal filaments in female can also grow long when they are older, but still somewhat shorter than male of the same age and size. In general, I'd say all the signs are very subtle, and this is not an easy fish to sex at all !!

However, there is another sign to observe - the shape of the belly. It's difficult to describe, but males and females have different belly shapes even when they are young. I used this method to select my first pair and I got a right male-female pair

 

[henkh]

Indeed, this fish is hard to sex. I breed with this fish a few years and i have a group swimming with a group of Apistogramma. My experience is that sex gets visible when they get about > 5 cm. And what Melanochromis writes is true. I think they are all males.

 

[wespastor]

So, they need to grow just a wee bit to know with out a doubt. But generally we thiink ther are male. Of late I am having some troubles crop up. I have three of the remaining 5 segregated. The one you mentioned earlier and two others. A third began hiding frequently at feeding time instead of eating. This is the one I will focus my comments on. Most of his coloring is good, however like the other fifh noted earlier he was thin. He eats, but when he eat it like he loses his balance and goes upsidedown just briefly. he rights himself. there is almost no direct flow in tis tank because the fish seem week and I wanted them to regain some strength with some good food. It's been 3 days and it seem to be getting worse. any ideas? The remaining 2 fish seems to be vivacious eaters and the like. it's just these three and this one in particular.

 

[wespastor]

Reposted traslated into dutch for my friend henkh in the Netherlands:

Dus, om te groeien net een klein beetje te weten met uit twijfel. Maar over het algemeen denken we dat ze mannelijke. Laat heb ik sommige problemen opduiken. Ik heb drie van de resterende 5 gescheiden. De een die u zojuist en twee anderen. Een derde begon verbergen vaak op voedertijd in plaats van eten. Dit is degene die ik mijn opmerkingen tot beperken zal. De meeste van zijn kleur is goed, maar zoals de andere vis eerder opgemerkt was hij dun. Hij eet, maar wanneer hij het eten als hij verliest zijn evenwicht en kort upside-down gaat. hij rechten zelf. Er is bijna geen directe stroom in deze tank omdat de vis week lijken en ik hen wilde te herwinnen wat kracht met sommige goed eten. Het is 3 dagen geweest en het lijkt te worden steeds erger. ieder gronden? De resterende 2 vis lijkt te zijn levendige eters en dergelijke. het is gewoon deze drie en deze in het bijzonder.

 

[wespastor]

Nevermind on this one. I found him dead this morning. This is the first fatality that is non suicidal. Are there more to come? I have two seemingly thriving males and another two that are fraile. They eat but ever so lightly, they barely eat at all. I still need some with the other two however.

Thank you.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[wespastor]

Translated into Dutch:

Nooit mening op dit ene. Ik vond hem dood vanmorgen. Dit is de eerste dodelijke slachtoffer die is niet suïcidaal. Zijn er meer te komen? Ik heb twee schijnbaar bloeiende mannetjes en de andere twee die zwak zijn. Ze eten maar ooit zo licht, zij nauwelijks eten op alle. Ik moet echter sommige met de andere twee nog.

Bedankt.

Beste wensen,
Wes

 

[henkh]

I'm sorry to read above. I think a combination of stress and maybe parasites (wild caught). What are you feeding? What kind of light do you have above the tank? Maybe feed living food like brown shrimp, daphnia and so on and less light to avoid further stress. And because wild caugt, watch the water quality. No need to have low pH, but it must be free of nitrate and so on. If you watch the tank, keep some distance so you don't disturb to much. And maybe adding some easylife which helps against stress but also contains minerals et cetera. I hope you can keep the remaining fish alive and get them healty.

P.s. No need to translate, because the google translation is much harder to understand than the original message.

 

[wespastor]

I'm sorry to read above. I think a combination of stress and maybe parasites (wild caught). What are you feeding? What kind of light do you have above the tank? Maybe feed living food like brown shrimp, daphnia and so on and less light to avoid further stress. And because wild caugt, watch the water quality. No need to have low pH, but it must be free of nitrate and so on. If you watch the tank, keep some distance so you don't disturb to much. And maybe adding some easylife which helps against stress but also contains minerals et cetera. I hope you can keep the remaining fish alive and get them healty.

P.s. No need to translate, because the google translation is much harder to understand than the original message.

Well, as to the translation that was not Google, that was my own feeble attempt to remember back when I last spoke the language here in the US with the Amish community.

At to the Light I am using ambient room lighting no light above the tanks. I have feed just about every variety of food including live foods. Only 2 now have survived and seem to be doing well. These thing are the reason I quarantine all fish for so long (45 day minimum). Some say that’s an awful long time but look at the attrition of these fish. I was able to perform a necropsy on one of the fish. I did not notice anything particularly unusual in term of parasites. Maybe this one particular fish just did not want to eat anything other than what it was accustom too in the wild and I had none of that. And maybe these two remaining fish said to themselves, “hey I’m not going to starve to death, I’ll eat what ever comes by. Seeing how it comes regularly why not?” lol

Anyway, I am happy for the two but very disappointed about the four.

Thanks anyway.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[gerald]

Wes - did yu happen to look at the kidney, spleen and liver? If so, were they smooth reddish-brown (normal) or did they have lighter colored tan, yellowish or brownish lumps in them (like fine sand grains) ?

I was able to perform a necropsy on one of the fish. I did not notice anything particularly unusual in term of parasites. Wes

 

[wespastor]

Wes - did yu happen to look at the kidney, spleen and liver? If so, were they smooth reddish-brown (normal) or did they have lighter colored tan, yellowish or brownish lumps in them (like fine sand grains) ?

I looked at the organs, even through microscopy inspection @1200x, I did not find any unusual occurrances or parasites. The organs looks normal more dark brown than reddish, But I suspect it was due to time in water after death rather than an actual abnormality. I really wish I could post photos of that. Maybe that will be my next toy. I got some nice lab type toys. I used to study inorganic chemistry when I was young so I still have some stuff around. My how field changed in 30 years!

The remaining two males seem to be doing wel all things considered. I will still keep them in quarantine for another 30 or 30 days. I have a task reminder that will tell me when time is up. I have automated reminders on almost every task that has to do with the tanks. Her d lose track that way.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[henkh]

Oké, let's hope that their appetite is a sign that they survive.

(About Amish, didn't know they spoke dutch. Then probably an old fashion dutch, like in south africa, that now a days we don't speak anymore. And also don't understand anymore. Language evolves and funny to notice that on different places the evolution is different.)