picking pencil fish

[sherry]

I am pondering the choice of pencil fish for dithers.

On the one hand there are some gorgeous coral reds Nannostomus mortenthaleri that I am just drooling over. I spoke to Mark over at annubias design who gets them on occassion. He says in his experience these can grow to 3 inches and are very active, and may eat some fry if the apistos breed.

does anyone have any experience with them in an apisto tank?

The other option is to go with a mix of Beckfords and some of the hovering types like Nannostomus Eques and Nannostomus Unifaciatus. The fish would be slower and less interested in fry.

I don't want the apistos to feel "under attack" .. and yes I already have a couple of bn plecos but I did get some breeding caves that would keep those out....

and I don't need to have tons of surviving fry. . I'd just like the apistos to have a chance to raise some... and have a nice life.

if anyone has used the mortenthalari and knows how that has worked out in their tanks, please tell me. They are truly gorgeous fish and could be fun. If the beauty an't worth the price, I can go with the slower less brilliant pencils. Also.l .I know my apistos are nice and slow.... if the tank would aesthetically be better complemented by slower dithers that would be good to know too. Just any experience or thoughts would be welcome. This is the time to toss all information on the table, since I haven't made any orders yet

thanks

you guys have helped me make several important decisions so far!

 

[HaakonH]

In my humble opinion you should not encounter any major problems with loss of fry if keeping mortenthaleri with your Apistos. The mortenthaleris may be somewhat quicker and more lively than i.e. N.eques, but they are by no means predators that will spend much time trying to snap the Apisto fry. Sure, if given the opportunity they won't say no, but they will not be a danger. Also, they have small mouths and as soon as your Apisto fry have grown a little there will be almost no danger at all. The Apisto fry will be moving very close to the substrate to begin with, and the mortenthaleris usually stay closer to the surface than to the bottom of the tank. In addition, the Apisto female should have no big problems keeping the mortenthaleris away if they come too close.

 

[sherry]

do you like them? are the great fish to keep and are they as much fun to watch as the slower pencils that do the hummingbird thing?

 

[Mike Wise]

N. mortenthaleri is closely related to the Dwarf Pencilfish, N. marginatus. They should not grow larger than 1½"/4 cm. All of the nannostomins seem to have use the hovering motion, using their pectoral fins like hummingbirds use their wings.

 

[sherry]

Mike have you actually seen them or kept them, she asks hoping the answer is yes.

Mark at annubiasdesign who imports them sometimes says he has seen them as large as 3 inches and that they more resemble blue tetras in activity.. darting about pretty quickly.

He says they are much faster than other pencils and much more active, and that if I kept them, I should keep only them as pencils.. while most of the others could mix and match.

but he's never LIVED with them long term... so if someone here has.... it would be really helpful information.

 

[Mike Wise]

I have kept & bred many pencilfish in my tanks, but must admit that A. mortenthaleri is not one of them. Maybe someone else on the forum can provide this information.

Personally, N. beckfordi have been the rowdiest of the pencifish, and these are not threats to fry. Even the larger pencils, like N. harrisoni, and cousins, like Copella cf. brevis & C. cf. nattereri, have never been a serious threat to fry, in my experience. All are fast little fishes when the need arises - even N. eques & N. unifasciatus. These fish prefer to pick small organisms off of surfaces or floating in the water collumn. Their 'tweezer-like' mouths are ideal for this. They are not especially good at actively hunting down prey.

 

[sherry]

so tell me Mike, who did you enjoy the most.. would you choose an assortment, or one species.. or go for the color splash of mortenthalari?

 

[Greg PL]

I have ~10 N. eques and 7 C. strigata as well as 1 Copella naterreri and a few leftover N. beckfordi. the last are the only ones going more than 10 cm below water level in search for food.

I would stay with eques and unifasciatus, perhaps mixing them with a small Carnegiella sp.

 

[Mike Wise]

I always enjoyed keeping multiple species in my community tank. In my breeding tanks, I usually keep 2 - 4 specimens of many different species. My favorite pencilfish is N. espei - hard to find but beautiful. My favorite Copella, C. cf. nattereri, lovely & elegant.

 

[aspen]

i find beckford's to be a good fish for apisto tanks. they aren't that difficult to replace around here either.

rick

 

[sherry]

I've seen the espei in photos.. gorgeous!!!!

I agree the beckfords would be lowest on the heartbreak scale as they are replaceable

hmmm decisions.. I am looking up copella's now Thanks

 

[sherry]

OMG MIKE!!!! These are gorgeous

and I love your article about them.

So now where do we find some are you still breeding any? Wow.!!

 

[Mike Wise]

To tell the truth, I am not breeding anything right now. My time is too full with other things right now.

The best sources for pencilfish are found on the East & West Coast. There are several suppliers in New Jersey that your LFS can get them from. Believe it or not The Cichlid Exchange in Portland, OR is another source. Dougie sells a lot of other fish than just cichlids.

 

[sherry]

he has some good stuff!!!


I'll keep him in mind. )

thank you so much for all of this guidance. For the first time, I feel like my tank is coming together : )

 

[aspen]

sherry, watch the buying 1 species at a time. remember to quarentine new fish. you don't want that kind of hassle of having a disease wipe you out. it has happened to all of us at 1 time or another. any new fish can have something that your fish can't handle, even if you get it from your friend's established tank.

rick

 

[jakeowen]

any links or contact info for those sources in Jersey?
That is where I am located, and would like to look into some as well.
Thanks,

Jay

 

[Griz]

The only pencilfish I have experience with is the one-lined pencilfish, Nannostomus unifasciatus. One of the more commonly available I believe. I've found them to be a very interesting fish and they have turned out to be excellent tankmates for my cacatuoides.

 

[sherry]

mark at annubias design (look it up on yahoo groups) is in PHilly and gets great pencil fish and some apistos in.

I am making my first order now, but he comes very highly recommended!! From philly to NJ, he can ship ups ground and you still get it overnight!