:( lustless Agassizii male

[nijrem]

tank info;
Rio125, water testing revealed nothing dangerous. 2 coconuts, and pieces of driftwood available for hiding aswell as a bit of plants.

I've been setting up a Rio180 for them to relocate to; but this isn't ready for fish yet.

Ever since I removed guppies from my tank he's been just lustless and hiding 99% of the time lights are on (and when they're off I have no idea what he might be doing, probably the same)
'His' female died last week, while she was actually looking better than she had for a while; they never really got along but she managed to hide and as far as I noticed ate enough.

After removing the guppies I added more Ember Tetras; all of them are looking fine and enjoy schooling together throughout the tank. The Corydoras Pygmaeus are also happily swimming around.

2 days ago I replaced the dead female Aggi with two new ones, both look fine; 1 is clearly more dominant though; she swims freely through the tank most of the time, while the other hides most of the time.

But back to the male; He's not been feeding well, and seems to just lie around in dark corners of wood or a coconut. I fear it will only be a couple of days before he really gives up living.

I have no quarantine/hospital tank; but could rush emptying the Aqua40 tank of guppies; and put them in with the others in the 125L. (ofcourse those also have fry swimming around, as usual..)

The male must be stressed out by something and not eating doesn't help either obviously. He's turned to a dark colour, brownish actually. He's skinny and not really moving much unless he absolutely has to (when the dominant female comes to visit him; bright yellow with the typical black dot.)

Any tips? I wonder if I should just let him be and hope for the best or catch him and do the Aqua40 plan..

TIA..

 

[nijrem]

hm.. just noticed him 'flashing'.. parasite from the LFS then I guess? (none of the others do it but he could've been more vulnerable for some reason)
I really should've been patient and waited 'till the 180L was ready, and quarantine fish...First thing I'll invest in is a quarantine tank, or convert the Aqua40 to that asap.
Looked like his gill is giving him an itch; I'll go find what kind of medicine and actions I should do but feel free to offer any advice about it aswell.
thanks again.

 

[Stefaan]

You should first try to find the cause of this problem.
Relocate him is of no use unless you know what is wrong.
It could be the waterparameters, or maybe you didn't change enough water lately?
I don't think the removing of the guppies has anything to do with it.
Have you got some test strips or something like that to measure NO2, NO3, PO4?

 

[nijrem]

Yep I did use test strips (I know they're less accurate than drops though) and that showed safe parameters. Only thing not too kind to the Apistos is the hardness; but thats always been on the high side and never caused problems (tank has been running for a little over a year).

I'm off to an LFS now to at least get some more test kits and medics (which I know I should have anyway).

edit: Ended up getting a cheap extra tank (60cm) even ) thats the future quarantine tank (or the new housing for the gups; and I'll use the cube as a quarantine). Tested the water again; still getting the same results; safe.

Fastest way to deal with it now I suppose is use tank water, fill the 60 cm and observe further (and medicate if its clear what might be the problem?)

another edit: One of the females is showing the same flashing behaviour, no visible signs of disease other than the flashing..

 

[nijrem]

Well.. Since I've noticed the male having a tough time; I also noticed both new females having the same issues; flashing being the most clear symptom.

Tonight I've moved the male and subdominant female (they were really 'the worst' of the 3).

I set up a 60cm/54Litre tank (and had its filter run on and off for the past 2 days in their tank), very simply; a piece of wood, catappa leaf and a coconut. I wouldn't dare to try and keep them alive for an extended period of time in there right now, especially since the filter hasn't been running for a while yet; I hope it accumulated enough bacteria to help clean the water but I will be doing small water changes daily. The male looked so bad; I think this was the only right thing to still try short of seeing him dead in a couple of days. The female was not too bad; she looked fine but her behaviour was not alright. Today I noticed a pretty long string of 'clear' poop (pardon my french) so I figured she could use the anti bacterial treatment aswell. For now; it's just her and the male in a 60cm tank, thin gravel bottom, some mopani wood, leaves and a coconut shell. I'm quite sure they won't bother eachother in the state they're in. The tank has been filled with about 40% 'old' tank water, 60% new tap water (it's not too hard here; Im always told they do fine with the addition of leaves and wood). As I said, I let the filter run in the 80cm tank for a while; but currently its filtering the 60cm (I took out the carbon cartridges.)
Mdeicated with Tetra ContraIck, which is supposed to help against Ichtyo and various parasites. I can only hope I guessed that this will help.

The other female was dominant in the 80cm tank, swimming freely; although also bothered by something. She too was flashing. However, she looks alright; I figured it would cause the other two too much stress to add her aswell to the 60cm hospital, so I left her in the tank for now.

Any ideas? Any other things I should add to the hospital? (It's really bare minimum in there; as I've said. But I figured not doing anything will surely cause deaths so I might aswell try what I can..) I really want to see them make it through this.. I've already spent 10 fold of what I could buy a new one for, I'm really trying here...

edit: I've tested with strips; Liquid water testing kit is on it's way; only thing I can imagine that bothers the male anyway is ph/gh. But he's been in the 80cm tank for over a year already and always looked like he was alright. Maybe not perfect, but alright and healthy at least.

I guess it's hard for you guys to make a guess at what caused this to happen; I look at malnutrition (he was skinny) and stress. Combined with some new fish from various LFS (a young Ancistrus from 1, 10 Ember tetra from another and 2 new females from yet another LFS. The risks I took were probably too great). Water parameters haven't changed much since he was in there in the first place. The water might have been getting a bit harder over the course of the year, maybe I should try bigger changes in the future? (been doing about 40% weekly I estimate) I'll try to get a more steady diet of leaves in the rio125 aswell to help reduce the ph, but I'm still in the process of switching to a 180 litre (1metre) aquarium, and intend to filter peat into that regularly aswell to help the apisto's to a reasonable ph aswell.

(I hope to rehouse them all in the 180 litre, healthy and happy, and possibly add some more.. but right now all I want is those 3 healthy)

 

[Mike Wise]

Sorry that I can't help you. It could be anything from parasites to pollutants/poisons in the water. Your experience is a prime reason why every fish should be quarantined before adding to an established community.

 

[nijrem]

Only have myself to blame, but it's a hard lesson learned. One of the new females also died. Not touching anything anymore untill things are stable (and the quarantine tank is empty again, no new fish untill then). I still have hopes for the male and female, hope I made the right call on the medication for ick and parasite but this week I'm going to do nothing more than little water changes and feeding. Too much tampering is will just cause more stress.(hard to restrain myself though. Obviously I want to do everything I can to get them back to happy fish). Thanks for reading and wish me luck

 

[Mike Wise]

Good luck! The nice thing about a basic quarantine tank (bare aquarium, sponge filter, PVC pipe/nylon mops, and heater, if needed) is that all of the parts are easily sterilized with chlorine bleach if necessary.

 

[nijrem]

Unfortunately both the subdominant female and the male did not survive the hospital. I've learned many lessons from this experience. Have one female left now, which is looking pretty good. I've received the liquid test, so I won't be 'estimating' stuff anymore with strips.
All is well in the 80cm tank, though gH is on the high end for them. Anyway, no new fish for a while. Taking care of the remaining fish and new tank's water conditions.