Blue Ram Fry

[Eric]

My Blue Rams spawned in my community tank. I removed the eggs and place them in a 10 gal tank. There were about 40 eggs and around 20 hatched out. I have fed infurosia BBS and crushed flake food. For some reason the fry have been dying. They spawned 3 weeks ago and I have 7 left. The water has no ammonia and no nitrites. The fry look like they are breathing very fast but this could be normal? I have never seen fry before so I don’t know. Any suggestions will be welcome. When the fry are in the wiggler stage do they eat?
Thanks
Eric

 

[Z Man]

No, they fry do not eat in the wrigglers state. They should not be fed until they are 'free swimming'. Then only infusoria or similar organism with only a small amount of BBS. Forget the flake food, they usually won't go after it. If they are 3 weeks free swimming they should be taking live BBS very eagerly. Also make sure you keep the water clean by siphoning out all uneaten foods at least once a day. BTW, 4 to 6 small feeding per day of newly hatched BBS is 100% better only a few times daily. I also believe that bi-weekly water changes are pushing it a little bit. I myself would try to change closer to every week. You have to be removing the bottom waste anyway daily.

 

[T_om]

Your fry are probably starving to death. Ram fry are small and sometimes difficult to get through the first few days.

My last hatch successfully produced 161 fry. I counted them when I moved them to a grow out tank after a few weeks with the parents in the spawning tank. Once they become free swimming, I feed decapsulated brine shrimp eggs. I never bother to hatch the shrimp, it is not necessary.

MANY benefits to using decap shrimp... no waiting for a hatch, more nutritious, easier to store and use, and certainly not least, much less expensive because you can buy the (cheaper) low hatch rate eggs since you are not hatching them anyway and you can use 100% of the eggs.

I feed decaps and microworms until the fry are large enough to eat Grindal worms, then move them up to Calif. Blackworms for final grow out and bringing to sexual maturity.

Tom

 

[Eric]

Thanks For the info.
I think you are correct, I must have starved them to death. What a bummer. Ho old are your parents? 161 fry thats amazing. I would like to get these to breed again and would like to see more than about 40 eggs. How do you get them to do such a large spawn? I just obtained this pair from the LFS about 2 months ago.
Thanks
Eric

 

[T_om]

The parents of that 161 fry spawn are about 6 months old.

The large spawn is a direct result of feeding exclusively on live foods. These fish would not know what to do with flake food... probably just stare at it.

I feed a worm-based diet. After moving on from decap brine shrimp and microworms (including more and more of the new Walter worms for the very young fry), I convert the adults to a diet of 100% worms... Grindal worms, California Blackworms and, to a much lesser extent, chopped red wigglers

Great growth, great color and large spawns.

Tom

 

[fishgeek]

what are walter worms ?

can you produce the cbw and wlater worms at home?

andrew

 

[aspen]

>>'what are walter worms ?'

http://www.biosierra.com/Catalog/bugpages/4063.html

i've never tried them though...

apparently you can actually culture california blackworms at home, there are some references here and there, but most people just buy them. maybe it is really smelly?

http://www.simplydiscus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40035&highlight=culture

rick

 

[T_om]

what are walter worms ?

can you produce the cbw and wlater worms at home?

andrew

Someone else has posted a link to explain Walter worms... I would add they appear to be even more prolific than microworms... which is to say VERY prolific.

Blackworms can indeed be raised at home... however, it is a huge PITA and life is too short to bother growing blackworms (and separating them from the media). I'd rather have my teeth drilled.

I buy mine here http://aquaticfoods.com/blackwormcare.html

Standard disclaimers apply... I have no financial interest in the place, just a happy customer.

Tom

 

[fishgeek]

anyone know of a uk supplier?

 

[Eric]

Hi All,
Where can I find Grindal worms? All the places I have checked are out of stock.
Thanks
Eric

 

[T_om]

Hi All,
Where can I find Grindal worms? All the places I have checked are out of stock.
Thanks
Eric

Eric,

Check your PM.

Tom

 

[Eric]

Hi Tom,
What do your newborn fry eat? I have tried microworms and decapsulated brine shrimp and I cant tell if they are eating yet (the food seems large). They have been freeswiming for 3 days now. I guess if they were not eating they would be dead by now?
Thanks
Eric

 

[aspen]

i need a magnifying glass to see if their bellies are full. eric the concern you have atm is the reason people with new fry over-feed them. go easy on the food and make sure they eat it all up or that you get it back out.


rick

 

[T_om]

Hi Tom,
What do your newborn fry eat? I have tried microworms and decapsulated brine shrimp and I cant tell if they are eating yet (the food seems large). They have been freeswiming for 3 days now. I guess if they were not eating they would be dead by now?
Thanks
Eric

Ram fry can eat both those foods. It is easy to tell if they take the decaps, their bellies turn orange. Harder to tell with the microworms, but the fry are surviving and that indicates they are feeding.

Tom

 

[Eric]

Thanks for the info
How do you clean the bottom of the fry tank without siphoning out the fry?
Thanks
Eric

 

[aspen]

it is almost impossible not to vacuum a few of the fry. i use a small syphon, and go carefully. get the fry used to contact and scare them a bit with the syphon. i syphon into a bucket and then net them back into the tank. if you are going right down the drain, you will definately lose fry.

rick

 

[depthc]

I put a little chuck of panty hose and rubberband it around the tube. This prevents fry from being sucked up and it works. I havent sucked up any fry in quiet some time doing this.

Doing this stops chucks of poo, plant matter, ect from being sucked up but if your using a gravel vac which i do. You just pull it out with the panty hose up so all the particles on it dont go back into the tank, put it in your bucket of water and shake the junk off.

So if your looking for a quick fix try it out.

Andrew

 

[nightowl1350]

If you use an airline hose and keep your finger over the end going into a white pail just stop it when the fry get in. It works for angels. If you do get some in the pail use a turkey baster and put them back in the tank.

 

[Eric]

Well my fry are dying. I dont understand. I always lose my fry after about 2 weeks. I thought maybe they were starving but this time they have been given microworms every day.
Thanks
Eric

 

[T_om]

Well my fry are dying. I dont understand. I always lose my fry after about 2 weeks. I thought maybe they were starving but this time they have been given microworms every day.
Thanks
Eric

Eric,

Are they taking the decap shrimp? Should be, mine love the things. Orange bellies will tell you if they are eating them.

Are you changing water regularly?

Fry mortality at two weeks usually indicates a food problem.

Tom