Biotoecus sp. "Rio Tapajos"

[freshwaterfishfan]

I got some Biotoecus sp. "Rio Tapajos" from Aquaglaser a few weeks ago (and just got some fry from them). Does anyone know if this is just a type locale for Biotoecus opecularis? They don't look like the wild Biotoecus opecularis I've gotten before in the sense that they seem more elongated but the coloring and finnage seem about the same.
Steve

 

[Gillie]

You're a lucky guy Steve! When they grow out let me know if you'll be parting with some of them. I just found an opercularis spawn today.

 

[Mike Wise]

See this tread: http://forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=7786&highlight=Biotoecus.

I'd like to see photos of your fish.

 

[Microman]

Ive just got hold of the same fish from Glasers imported as B.sp."Tapajos"and they do indeed look different to the B opercularis that i have had, and bred many times, in the past.
Fish look much more elongated and dorsal fin looks much higher when displaying. Colour of paired finnage is also quite different, very orange.
Very nice fish though... Very interesting.
Will get some pics up soon.
Mark...

 

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi,

this is Heiko Bleher and whatever you have, the location given is wrong (unfortunately typical for Glaser). There was never ever a Biotecus found in southern Amazon affluents, and definitely not in the Tapajós (I did to many collectings there, since 1975).

Have you checked if it is not B. dicentrachus? Look close and maybe bring a photo.

Best regards,

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

 

[lab]

Hi,

this is Heiko Bleher and whatever you have, the location given is wrong (unfortunately typical for Glaser). There was never ever a Biotecus found in southern Amazon affluents, and definitely not in the Tapajós (I did to many collectings there, since 1975).

Have you checked if it is not B. dicentrachus? Look close and maybe bring a photo.

Best regards,

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

Maybe you should go look again?

Detlef Leue published an article about Biotoecus from Tapajõs in 2005 in DATZ.

 

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi,

again me, just for the sake of it (really do not go by DATZ, or any other popular publication, written by amateur aquarists).
Biotecus is know by 2 species found ONLY north of the Amazon River:
1. B. opercularis (Steindachner, 1875) Rio Branco, Middle and lower Rio negro, Urubu, Saracá, Carauaçu and lower Trombetas (all places verified and colelcted by me).
2. B. dicentrarchus Kullander, 1989, is only found further up, in the Vichada of Colombia, Puerto Carreño region, and in the upper Orinoco basin.

No "Tapajós at all.

Best regards from a collector (all his live),

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

 

[Anubias Design]

Congratulations, Steve!

Steve,
I missed the original post on this thread. Congrats on spawning them! Wow, that was quick!
Mark

 

[lab]

Hi,

again me, just for the sake of it (really do not go by DATZ, or any other popular publication, written by amateur aquarists).
Biotecus is know by 2 species found ONLY north of the Amazon River:
1. B. opercularis (Steindachner, 1875) Rio Branco, Middle and lower Rio negro, Urubu, Saracá, Carauaçu and lower Trombetas (all places verified and colelcted by me).
2. B. dicentrarchus Kullander, 1989, is only found further up, in the Vichada of Colombia, Puerto Carreño region, and in the upper Orinoco basin.

No "Tapajós at all.

Best regards from a collector (all his live),

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

Why should being an amateur prevent you from finding something new? It didn't stop you, did it?

It surprises me that you are so unwilling to accept that others found something that you didn't. After all it's a huge area, and no one could really blame you for not finding everything. How could this in any way affect or take away from your own achievement?

I think it is a serious matter calling other people liars, especially with no evidence to support it. The article in question did have photos from the wild and in fact was an observation from nature. It was not "just" a new name from an importer.

 

[Gillie]

Why should being an amateur prevent you from finding something new? It didn't stop you, did it?

It surprises me that you are so unwilling to accept that others found something that you didn't. After all it's a huge area, and no one could really blame you for not finding everything. How could this in any way affect or take away from your own achievement?

I'm not trying to gang up on anyone, but this is a good point. With
all of the unexplored areas in South America not one person can say for 100% what is or is not swimming in the waters there. Sp. Tapajos could have been found in a little creek that you unknowingly overlooked and possibly just feet or even miles from where you last collected.

 

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi,

just tell me: why are some of you guys ONLY read what you want to read and things which have not been written at all????

ie. With no word I have written anything similar such as some of you mentioned as:
1. "100% sure"
2. "... that no amateur/hobbyist can find something new..."
3. And I did not say with any word, that I am "unwilling to accept", just to mention a few of your un-correct statements (or interpretations).

ALL of these are words YOU are putting in my mouth!!!!!

I just mentioned here the existing facts, those which are recognized by the scientific community, verified through decades of field work and sampling and also which have been published. And I mentioned my findings (which with no word should be 100%, nor that I checked every single one of the 100,000 Amazon affluent creeks and rivers).

So you all better read before you spit it out and verify what you write, at least I do.

Besides of these facts (and anyone can verify them) it might be of additional interest (at least to some of you):
The giant white-water mighty Amazon river is a NATURAL barrier for many (the majority at least) of the small (and smallest) fishes between the species from the southern to the northern part (or vs. versa) and if anyone of you has been there, he can probably understand that such small species can hardly cross tenths of kilometers without being washed away, eaten, caught or killed do to the big difference of the chemical water parameters...

But I guess I am wasting my time here to pass on some valid (but never 100%) information based on science and personal experience from 330 Amazon field trips. And b.t.w.: Did anyone of you every realize that NOTHING on this planet is 100%, except for the fact that we all die. That is 100% of a fact, which no one can deny, and the only one.

Best regards anyhow from one who cannot know everything by 100% (but I know Glaser, as he worked for me for several years...).

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

 

[Gillie]

It was not my intent to infuriate you to the point that you would be wasting your time here. Maybe it was you wording, but your post did come across as you saying that there was now way that there could be a Biotoecus sp. from the Rio Tapajos. Maybe if something like "although there is speculation throughout the hobbiest community, it has not yet been confirmed by science" things would have been clearer. I fully understand that it would be difficult for such a small fish to cross the Amazon, but other modes of travel could be, fry or eggs sticking to the legs and feet of birds(which is a frequent occurence around here), but who knows. I do agree that communication is lacking between collectors and scientists as far as collecting areas and such. With that being said maybe lab can see what can be done as far as getting a collection location.
Again I apologize if I sounded like I was saying you didn't know what you were talking about.

 

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi,
OK apology accepted. Sometimes communication becomes a problem, I understand, specially if ones mother language is not English (as mine).

Best regards

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

 

[apistodave]

okok

Ok guys be cool;---Heiko--just as an ofshoot here --have you collected Dicrossus Sp in the TAPAJOS and what is your opinion of the range of this fish--Dicrossus Sp??

 

[apistodave]

Genus

I mean Genus of course

 

[freshwaterfishfan]

Dave,

I'd be interested in an answer, too. I have a bunch of supposed Dicrossus sp. Tapajos. They don't look anything like maculatus. I've got several pairs but can't get them to spawn.
Steve

 

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi guys,

yes, the genus Dicrossus (formerly Crenicara), is amazing and to my research and knowledge very little done on it. I made some (severe) comments on the latest description of a D. filamentosus with a single "sword" as a new species (which Dr Steack did not like, and some others also not), but I collected several times - once in a while - such single specimens with a single sword (instead of 2) in different areas so did a few other, also in Venezuela - but all the way down to the lower Rio Negro affluents. And not only me. He could (should) have described anyone of the other - at least 5 are not yet described - Dicrossus species, species which are really different from D. filamentosus.

And yes, the so caleld D. sp. "Tapajos" I collected already along the Transamazonica in 1975 (it is found in an affluent, not in the Tapajós itself); some years later a new species in the Rio Demini, and I found a third species in the Rio Aracá two years ago. One in 2007 in an affluent of the Rio Jari (Purus system) even, not counting the at least 5 I mentioned (and I have them all very well recorded). Those are surely new, as the are completely different in morphology.

I am not sure which ones are still in the hobby. I ha given them two several people in Europe. The late Rainer Warzel had two (and as far as I know bred them). Sevral other Germans had them.

I am for some time working up the list of my discoveries with exact dates and if described or not yet, there are just so many (so far I am over 4000 and every few month new ones have top be added - just came back from northeastern India with 2-3, maybe 5, new Badis and a Dario, hopefully they will be bred...).

Anyhow, I hope this helps to answer your question.

Maybe some of you should look at my website on my lectures and seminars still coming up this yewar, and if anyone lives near to Istanbul, Athens, Oslo, Lodz (Poland), London, Ontario (Canada), Hong Kong, Singapore or Perth, please come, as in most I will be talking and presenting also dwarf cichlids - including latest discoveries. These ones mentioned take place this and next month. End of July and begin of August in Portland, Oregon, than (08.02) in Los Angeles, and in Vienna (Austria) on the o8.30. Begin of September in Czech republic and begin of October in Duisburg, Germany and later in October in Shanghai, China. Where do you all live?

All the very best,

always

Heiko
www.aquapress-bleher.com




D

 

[apistodave]

Sisters

Heiko I live in Sisters ORegon, unfortunatley while you come here--I go to Germany to visit with my friend Uwe

 

[Microman]

Where are you lecturing in London Heiko?
Couldnt find information on your site.
Mark...

 

[a.d.wood]

Where are you lecturing in London Heiko?
Couldnt find information on your site.
Mark...

I went off to look as well Mark wondering who had asked Heiko to come to the UK, unfortunately it's London in Ontario, Canada.....

Andrew