Artificial hatching with white eggs

[zhihuai1982]

My pair of A.Breitbinden has failed of hatching eggs for many times. So I decided to artificial hatch by myself.

I isolated the shell of coconut in the case and the water can exchange inside and outside. (pic1)

The first day, all the eggs were normal, none of them became white egg. (pic2)

The second day, many eggs became white and broken, seemed like the material in the egg exploded outside. However, about 10 eggs are still normal, at least they are gray, not white. (pic3)

The question is why there are so many eggs exploded? unfertilized？infected?

pic1

pic2

pic3

 

[Mike Wise]

Is it possible that your water is too hard? A. piaroa is found in acidic and very soft water in Nature. If your water is very different it can cause problems with fertilization, osmotic pressure differences, etc.

 

[zhihuai1982]

Is it possible that your water is too hard? A. piaroa is found in acidic and very soft water in Nature. If your water is very different it can cause problems with fertilization, osmotic pressure differences, etc.

TDS is about 45, PH is about 6.0. So far, all the eggs are dead. T_T

 

[gerald]

The TDS is low, so your GH is probably low enough too. What about the mother's diet, which affects the nutritional content of her eggs? Feed live mosquito larve, blackworms, grindalworms, bloodworms, and fresh-hatched Artemia to get good rich egg yolk. Has this pair ever laid any eggs that hatched? How old are they? You dont suppose the copper wire is a problem; could it be?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

You dont suppose the copper wire is a problem; could it be?

Could be, if you don't have any organic carbon compounds (to complex the copper ions) in soft, acidic water levels may become toxic.

I assume the copper wire is to treat Hydra? <http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/threads/hydra-in-fry-tank.10634/#post-57309>?

cheers Darrel

 

[Mike Wise]

Once took a trip to a state trout rearing operation. I was told that small concentrations of zinc causes eggs not to hatch. Any galvanized pipes, etc.??

 

[joemc]

hi, has your pair ever hatched eggs at all? is it possible that your male is either immature or is infertile

 

[krib]

I just had a similar set up to artificially hatch T. candidi eggs. Since I had 2 attempts, first unsuccessful, second successful, I have a few suggestions which my help. First I think the air bubbles work better when they are closer to the eggs, slowly vibrating/pulsing them continuously. This properly prevents and debris from accumulating on the eggs. The strength of the water current is hard to describe here, but I would say you should see the eggs move slightly with each wave of bubbles. Second, I used hydrogen peroxide in small amounts to keep the redox potential high so that the bacteria /fungus count is low. I believe it is better than things like methylene blue, which is a known mutagen. The dose is 2 ml of %3 hydrogen peroxide to 20 litres of tank water every 6 hours (or 4 ml every 12 hours, but I think smaller frequent doses are safer). Dilute the peroxide with a cup of water first and spread to the tank, (slowly) putting some inside the fry box. (I stopped this as soon as I saw the tails of the fry) My third advice is to remove the white eggs with a tweezer asap to prevent the spread, and do not let the white stuff sit on the healthy eggs. (air bubbles again)

Basically the mother puts a lot of effort to keep the eggs healthy, and if you are artificially hatching the eggs you should do the job. Some species do not need so much "egg care", but apparently some do. And don't give up on the pair, I had fry after almost believing the couple were infertile.

I also have to say from the pics I don't understand how the water inside the box is exchanged. It looks closed on all sides. A fry box with grills on the sides may work much better as it provides continuous water exchange.

(Copper wire may be causing problems like others have mentioned, in case it is actually touching the water.)

Good luck!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Same would apply to zinc, but to a lesser degree than for copper (<"The Skeptical Aquarist - Humic substances"> & <"Chelation"> and for a more complete review: <http://nora.nerc.ac.uk/3209/1/SCHO0408BNXX-e-e.pdf>.

Natural chelators (from humic, fulvic or tannic compounds) complex multivalent metal ions. EDTA would be an alternative chelator.

I think this is one reason for adding Terminalia ("Indian Almond") or Quercus (Oak) leaves to fry tanks. Alder (Alnus glutinosa/cordata/rubra/incana etc.) "cones" also work, probably for the same reason.

These humic compounds also have anti-microbial properties, and Alder cones have been widely used by <"Corydoras catfish breeders"> etc in Europe.

cheers Darrel

 

[zhihuai1982]

The TDS is low, so your GH is probably low enough too. What about the mother's diet, which affects the nutritional content of her eggs? Feed live mosquito larve, blackworms, grindalworms, bloodworms, and fresh-hatched Artemia to get good rich egg yolk. Has this pair ever laid any eggs that hatched? How old are they? You dont suppose the copper wire is a problem; could it be?

They are about one and half years old. I fed them grindal worm for the most of the time. I have successfully artificial hatched for one time, only 8 fry have survived and grown up.

 

[zhihuai1982]

Once took a trip to a state trout rearing operation. I was told that small concentrations of zinc causes eggs not to hatch. Any galvanized pipes, etc.??

i have other apisto that reproduced quite well, so i don't think the water pipe is the problem.

Have you ever met eggs broken like mine？

 

[zhihuai1982]

I just had a similar set up to artificially hatch T. candidi eggs. Since I had 2 attempts, first unsuccessful, second successful, I have a few suggestions which my help. First I think the air bubbles work better when they are closer to the eggs, slowly vibrating/pulsing them continuously. This properly prevents and debris from accumulating on the eggs. The strength of the water current is hard to describe here, but I would say you should see the eggs move slightly with each wave of bubbles. Second, I used hydrogen peroxide in small amounts to keep the redox potential high so that the bacteria /fungus count is low. I believe it is better than things like methylene blue, which is a known mutagen. The dose is 2 ml of %3 hydrogen peroxide to 20 litres of tank water every 6 hours (or 4 ml every 12 hours, but I think smaller frequent doses are safer). Dilute the peroxide with a cup of water first and spread to the tank, (slowly) putting some inside the fry box. (I stopped this as soon as I saw the tails of the fry) My third advice is to remove the white eggs with a tweezer asap to prevent the spread, and do not let the white stuff sit on the healthy eggs. (air bubbles again)

Basically the mother puts a lot of effort to keep the eggs healthy, and if you are artificially hatching the eggs you should do the job. Some species do not need so much "egg care", but apparently some do. And don't give up on the pair, I had fry after almost believing the couple were infertile.

I also have to say from the pics I don't understand how the water inside the box is exchanged. It looks closed on all sides. A fry box with grills on the sides may work much better as it provides continuous water exchange.

(Copper wire may be causing problems like others have mentioned, in case it is actually touching the water.)

Good luck!

Thanks a lot! Your reply is quite informative. I will try as you suggested next time.

My hatching box has small grid at base of it, not so obviously in the photo, so the water can exchange.

Do you have any photo of your artificial hatching equipment?

 

[krib]

Hope the low quality picture helps. I actually used the natural hole on the coco cave to fix the airline as close to the eggs as possible. It gave air at a rate of 1 bubble per second. The whole thing was later moved to a floating breeder box with large grills on both sides. (I had to fill the grills with filter floss to prevent the fry from falling out) I picked bad eggs with a bent-tip Proskit tweezer. ( a quick google search will show you the product, not really necessary but I already had it for soldering ) Out of all the eggs in the picture I had about 10 of them go bad and ooze the white stuff out. The rest are happily (and slowly) growing now.