Apistogramma sp. "Mouthbrooder" specs

[cootwarm]

I'm making arrangements to purchase a couple pair of wild caught Apistogramma sp. "Mouthbrooder". Either it's not included in Romers Atlas or I missed it.

- Does anyone have any experience with this species?

- What river systems does this apisto inhabit?

- What water type? (blackwater, clearwater, etc.)

- What GH, KH and pH in their natural environment?

- What GH, KH and pH in captivity?

- Any breeding particulars? Tempurature? Caves? Sand or Gravel? Pairs or Trios?

Thanks,
Michael

 

[Richgrenfell]

Hi Mike,

I bred them a long time ago. I wrote an article on my experiences...here's a link. Hope that helps!

Rich

http://aquarticles.com/articles/breeding/Grenfell_A_maulbruter.html

 

[cootwarm]

Hi Rich,

Interesting article. I too ordered 2 pr and was planning to put them in a 20 gallon, but now I see that I should put them in a 30 gallon instead.

How large were the spawns?
I know being mouthbrooders, the spawns are probably small, but are they larger than what will fit in their mouth?

After the fry were free swimming, did the male care for the fry at all?

Do you or anyone else know anything about the natural water they originate from?
You wrote where Julio Melgar collects from around Rio Ampiyacu, is this the only place A. sp. "Mouthbrooder" inhabits?

Thanks,
Michael

 

[Richgrenfell]

The spawns varied,

The first couple were quite small (10 or 12 fry). The largest i had was about 30 or so. i didn't see any strays when the female was carrying.The male needed to be taken out while the female was caring for the fry. She just would not tolerate him once the brood care process started. When I wanted to spawn them again, I removed the female to another tank where the male was already introduced. I'm really not sure about the water where they are commonly found. The ones I had were collected by Julio in the areas listed. I can find out a bit more about that if you like. Good luck with them, they are really pretty interesting!

Rich

 

[cootwarm]

Hi Rich,

If you can find it, I'd like to learn more about the original habitat.

- What water type? (blackwater, clearwater, etc.)

- What GH, KH and pH in their natural environment?

The article you wrote was very interesting. Mine arrived last week. When I released them into the tank, they behaved more like tetras! All 4 took to swimming in a school, up and down the glass, back and forth across the tank.

They were very healthy and robust. They were also very hyper-active. Within an hour of releasing them in the tank, I noticed only 2 in the tank. Upon checking it out, I found the clear plastic shield on the back of the hood was missing and 2 of my 4 maulbruters had jumped out of the tank through that little opening! The remaining 2 are now settled down and acting more like cichlids. Anyhow, I've got 4 more maulbruters on the way next week. I want to be assured that I have a pair, but I also want to observe the group dynamics with 3 pr. of maulbruter in a 30 gallon long. After 3 or 4 months, I'll select a pair to keep and move them to a 20 gallon long.

Michael

PS - I've also got 3 pr of Fresa coming with the replacement maulbruter.

 

[Richgrenfell]

HIya Coot,
I found a post to the apisto mailing list from Mike Wise about the original habitat. It seems they are pretty widespread....it doesn't say much about water values though. MIke posts here, perhaps you can IM him? iN the meantime, have a look at the link below.

Rich
http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/A-breitbinden.html

 

[cootwarm]

It appears I might have eggs in the works. I have a trio of Apisto Mouthbrooders in a 30 gallon, but it's the pair I have in a 10 gallon tank that appear to have spawned. The female is in her bright 'mother' colors and spends most all her time in the cave. She tossed a bunch of sand out of the cave where it's piled up under the entrance. She only comes out when I feed them and once in awhile when I check out the tank. She comes up to the glass looking to be fed. The male is still young but his fins and color are developing nicely.

This seems to prove out Rich's observation that they prefer or need a fine sand substrate. The trio in the 30 gallon have a standard size aquarium gravel, while the 10 gallon has fine sand. (FilPro Quartz Sand, 1 part NJ # 0 mixed with 2 parts NJ # 1) I didn't want to use too fine a sand, but I feel it looks more natural when I mix a little #0 grit with #1 grit.

Anyhow, the 30 gallon with standard gravel size has a cave but none of the trio of Maulbruter show any interest in it. I don't see any courting going on, they display to each other from time to time, but for the most part they go their separate ways. They just spend most of their time swimming and foraging through the oak leaves, plants and driftwood.

As for the pair in the 10 gallon, we will see how things go when mother brings out some free swmmers. I might have to move dad to my wife's 55 gallon community tank temporarily if aggression gets out of hand. I have 2 beckfordi pencilfish in with them as dithers. Perhaps mom will feel that she'll need help from dad to keep an eye on the pencilfish. Currently when she comes out of the cave to eat, she still hangs out with the male and swims with him side by side.

Michael

 

[Richgrenfell]

Sounds like you have something going on......keep us posted!!

Rich

 

[cootwarm]

Hi Rich,

So far the situation remains the same. Although I'm not sure what will come of it as my water chemistry is far from ideal.
pH 7.5
GH 8
KH 5

I haven't been doing anything with the pH or hardness in my water lately because I want to avoid getting too many new born fry to feed for at least another 6 weeks or so. Too much summer stuff happening right now!

One thing for sure, these guys can sure sift sand! Every couple weeks I need to dump the sand off the oak leaves otherwise they would be completely buried in short order! I considered removing the oak leaves, but the Maulbruters enjoy foraging and playing in them as much as any other apisto.

Michael

 

[cootwarm]

I think I might have fry. I haven't actually seen any fry yet, but the female has emerged from the cave and her cheeks appear to be pouched out and she has a large under bite. I'll have to keep a close eye on her at feeding time! I read that the mother hides the fry while she eats.

Michael

 

[cootwarm]

Well when they were fed last night, she didn't eat. She would check out the food (flakes) but not eat. A few times she went between the cave and the back of the tank, but still appeared to have a mouthfull afterwards. I think she is not quite ready to leave them unattended for any amount of time just yet.

Michael

 

[cootwarm]

I just saw fry!!

When I turned the tank light on, her mouth looked normal and she was picking at the Java Moss. She then went behind the sponge filter where I saw a pile of tiny fry. One by one she packed them back in her mouth!

Michael

 

[cootwarm]

Well she seems to have passed her mouthbrooding phase as they're all free swimming now. She still keeps the male at a distance, but she isn't vicious about it.

There seem to be about 20 fry.

Michael

 

[cootwarm]

Another update:

Mother maulbruter has abandoned her fry and has disappeared in the cave for the past couple days. We can all guess as to whats happening in there! The fry are still kind of small, but they're on their own. The 1 pencilfish and 1 marbled hatchetfish aren't bothering the small fry. Dad shows interest in the fry, but doesn't keep them together in a group. They're dispersed throughout the tank.

I wonder how mother maulbruter will treat the first fry, when she emerges from her cave with the second batch.

I'd love to set them up in a colony setting, but I'm afraid the aggressiveness of the mother maulbruter would prevent that. Imagine what many maulbruter mothers in 1 tank would be like! Anyone had a group of maulbruters work out for them?

Michael

 

[cootwarm]

Well so much for finding out how the mother maulbruter will treat the fry of the first batch when the second batch becomes free swimming. There were no fry left by the mother emerged from her cave with a mouth full of new fry. The father maulbruter was a very poor guardian. He did absolutely nothing to protect the first fry after the mother abandoned them to start a second batch. I guess I'll need to remove the predators (1 pencilfish and 1 marbled hatchetfish).

I think maybe they spawn often to make up the difference of small batches of fry. Smaller batches but more of them?

I've got 1 pair in a 10 gallon with fine sand. (This is the pair that have spawned twice now.) I've also got a trio(1m2f) in another 10 gallon with a gravel substrate. There hasn't been any spawn yet. I guess this demonstrates the importance of using fine sand as Rich wrote about. I'm thinking of setting up a 20 gallon long with sand substrate for this trio and see how quickly things turn around.

About the trio, the male is healthy with nice colors and excellent fins. One of the females is dominant as she is in breeding colors(bright yellow panda look) and very aggressive. She flirts and chases the male all the time. The other female maintains neutral colors and hides out in the background. If she isn't careful, she gets harrassed by the dominant female. The 10 gallon is kinda small for a trio.

So far, I'm still considering putting all my maulbruters (2m3f) in a 30 gallon long. I don't have one available right now. I'm hoping by November. This will also give me a chance to accumulate a few batches of maulbruter fry for a growout tank.

I think that, like Rich, these guys are one of my favorite apistogrammas.

Michael

 

[joopsg]

Just want to know duration for the male to be kept in the breeding trap.

 

[cootwarm]

Depends on the temperment of your female. If you have a very aggressive female, it could be a long time. They seem to always be in some sort of breeding cycle. My female was most aggressive while caring for fry, but the fry weren't even 8 weeks old when she abandoned them and started another batch! This takes less than 2 weeks and she is the terror of the tanks again.

I've been lucky, the aggression hasn't been too severe on my pairs kept in 10 gallon tanks. The females are brutal, but have so far stopped short of doing damage to the males. They still have nice, whole fins and don't spend all their time hiding, so it doesn't seem to be as bad as it appears.

Michael

 

[joopsg]

But my problem is that my male is aggressive to the female. But the female now is in her breeding dress. However, the male sometime is very pushy. She is still able to have her meal regularly.

 

[Richgrenfell]

hI gUys,
sorry i haven't been paying attention to the thread. Coot looks like you're doing a good job!

Joop, as long as she is still eating and the male isn't forcing her into hiding, i'd leave things alone. unless of course you think he may injure her. I just got in a couple of trios, but only have one pair left as one of the males killed everyone else!

Rich

 

[joopsg]

Just observing them. The female seems to be very comfortable with the male.
Think they are too young to spawn/..