Apistogramma I.D.

[AndrewPayne007]

Hello,

I bought a pair of A. Agassizii about two months ago from an aquarium superstore near me. The tank's dithers were labelled at the same store as Nannostomus Eques, but after a bit of research I've identified them as N. Beckfordi. Needless to say, I don't really trust that my apistos are Agassizii after all. The male's tail does not come to a point, the pattern is off and he resembles Eunotus Orangeshwanz or maybe even geisleri or emerald anquer more to me. That being said, I'm an apisto noob so I'm not sure at all.

I'm having a touch of trouble getting my GH down. I bought an R.O. filter and started using it 60/40 (40tap) in my weekly changes long before I got apistos. I had it down to 6 DGH (however many ppm 6 drops is) but it's recently (since adding the apistos) gone back up to 11 DGH (11 drops). I thought maybe this was affecting their colouring up, but otherwise they seem happy. They're tail-wooshing lots and the male is doing fantastic vertical displays... I'm very happy with them... but want to know what they are! Any ideas out there?

Thanks!

(photo 1: male neutral mood, photo 2: female neutral mood, photo 3: male neutralish... the rest are of the male or male and female doing their thang...)

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
They look like they may be a pair of "Steel-Blue". The male definitely is, the other fish looks like she may be a female "Steel-Blue". Have a look through the forum, and at "Apistobobs" [Bob Wiltshire's) web site.

I'd recommend the the whole "dwarfcichlid.com" site: <http://dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_sp_Steel_blue.php> .

cheers Darrel

 

[fart]

Hi

For me this looks like a pair of Apistogtamma sp. "wangenflecken"

With regards
RHD

 

[Mike Wise]

All features visible indicate a resticulosa-complex species. Although A. sp. Wangenflecken is a resticulosa-complex species, I don't believe these fish are A. sp. Wangenflecken. Wangenflecken show arched/bowed vertical bars. These fish do not. I can't say for sure which species/form it is from the limited photos.

 

[AndrewPayne007]

Thanks guys! Mike - I've spent hours trying to get better clear shots of them. It's funny, they don't seem to mind when I'm gawking at them and fogging up the glass but as soon as I pull out the camera they get all shy. If it's not too much trouble - what parts of the fish do you need better shots of to help with identifying them?

 

[AndrewPayne007]

Also, just read your article "a description of apistogramma species groups" and am impressed with how much variance there is between the groups. Is there more literature on telling the differences between members within the groups? I don't know if it helps to identify mine, but there's a faint reddish spot or splotch between the male's lateral band and caudal spot. The irridescent blue markings on the cheek are minimal above the postorbital stripe, there are no markings above the preorbital stripe and there are no supraorbital markings as seen in Steel Blue. The markings in the caudal fin are inconsistent and are most noticeable in the centre of the fin toward the base. I'll try to get some better pics up ASAP!

 

[fart]

Regarding the reddish spot between the males lateral band and caudal spot. I asked the same question a while back, and Mike told me it is blood vessels showing through the pale tissue on the fish.

Here you find what helps for better ID of the fish.


With regards
RHD

 

[Mike Wise]

First, color is of minor importance in identifying apistos. Dark markings on the body and fins are much more useful. For regani-group species/forms - including the resticulosa-complex fish - the lateral band (width & borders), vertical bars (width compared to lighter interstitial areas), abdominal markings, and caudal fin markings are much more useful. Many of the regani-group fish are so similar that it really helps to have photos of all of the similar-looking species/forms side-by-side. Sadly, most books have the fish in alphabetical order, so aren't set up to do this. I know of only 3 exceptions: Koslowskis 1986 & 2002 books and the 'DATZ Book, "South American Dwarf Cichlids" w/A-numbers. The last 'special publication/Sonderheft' by the German magazine DATZ is primarily a picture book that shows all of the closely related species/forms side-by-side. Not only that, but it is also the most comprehensive treatment, showing most of the dwarf cichlids, known at the time of publication in 2005. Nothing comes close to it as an aid in apisto identification*.

*Disclaimer: I am one of the group of apistophiles who helped put this publication together so I may be biased (but I don't think so).

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I bought a pair of A. Agassizii about two months ago from an aquarium superstore near me. The tank's dithers were labelled at the same store as Nannostomus Eques, but after a bit of research I've identified them as N. Beckfordi.

I don't actually know what they are, but the quote above makes me think "Steel-Blue" is the likeliest option.

cheers Darrel

 

[AndrewPayne007]

Mike, I'd like to get my hands on a copy of the Datz book. Very cool that you translated it and that this site allows people to interact with foremost authorities on apistos! Amazon is out of stock! I took a bunch more pictures today... I think they show the primary dark markings a little more clearly but I sort of doubt they're much better than those already posted. The female has turned from dull to yellow. She seems more shy and to stick to her cave area when I'm watching but I managed a few of her also... they're the last or four. Some of the pictures are sort of blurry but I felt that they still showed the dark markings (mostly the vertical bars) better than the original photos. Thanks again for all of the help and input everybody!

 

[Mike Wise]

Not the best photos, but right now I think that you fish are A. sp. Wangenflecken. None of the photos show the complete vertical bars (below the lateral band). For this you need to photograph the fish in a stressed/frightened condition or at night. The other features, especially the shape of the caudal spot and pattern of spangles on the head of the male, all point to this species. Wangenflecken comes from the Ihla de Marajo, the giant island at the mouth of the Amazon. Populations of Nannostomus beckfordi are found there, too.

I know you can order the book directly from DATZ: http://www.ms-verlag.de/index.php?2511&backPID=2511&tt_products=4032. If you're not comfortable working in German than check with Steve Simpson's Books (UK). He sells worldwide. You can find him on Aquabid.

 

[AndrewPayne007]

Thanks for all of your help Mike. I wanted an I.D. so that I can make sure I'm caring for them properly and giving them an appropriate home! That being said I wasn't sure if I was doing the right thing by catching him to take photos of his markings while he was stressed. You'll see the net in the background and again, I'm no photographer so they're not the best photos, as you say. I had trouble getting him to turn left so that you could see both sides and his first and second vertical flank bars didn't show up too well underneath his lateral band... One thing I noticed that I thought might be unique to this specimen is the way his second flank bar seems to split into a 'Y' at the top of the bar on his left side (last photo). On his right it's wide but doesn't split with the 'v' of paler brown between the 'Y'. Anyways, thanks again for everyone's help. Now to research and make sure my parameters are all optimal for them!

(A pair in a 30g is as many as I should have, yes?)

 

[Mike Wise]

No doubt about it now. These are A. sp. Wangenflecken. the 'Y' & 'V' shapes are just oddities to this specimen and not diagnostic

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

No doubt about it now. These are A. sp. Wangenflecken

It was a good find then and best of luck with them.

cheers Darrel

 

[AndrewPayne007]

Hi all,
It was a good find then and best of luck with them.

Yeah I'm actually really pleased that they're a less common species. I think they're still growing but they're definitely displaying courtship behaviour. I've started hatching brine shrimp in preparation in case they do breed. Managed to get the GH back down to 6 degrees or so (six drops?) I had the KH at 0 without understanding buffering at all and have it bumped up to 5 degrees. The temperature's at 76F, the pH is 6.7, the ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and the nitrates are just about 0 too. I'm hoping that I've got the parameters right for their comfort!

 

[Mike Wise]

This is not a really demanding species. Near neutral, moderately hard water will work just fine. I would raise your temp a bit to 79°F/26°C just to be sure of a more even sex ratio.

 

[AndrewPayne007]

Hey Mike,

To my surprise the female has moved just outside of her cave with maybe two dozen young fry. They don't move much and look like heads with emaciated tails attached to them. I hurriedly started the brine hatching process this morning but have no idea when to start feeding them (do they have an eggsac?) I'm a bit out of my league here, any advice?

 

[fart]

Sounds like your fry is not free swimming yet. They still live of their egg sac. As soon as they are free swimming they will live of microorganism in you thank. My A. sp. Wangenflecken fry do not take brine shrimps the first week after they are free swiming, they are to small.

Good luck with your A. sp. Wangenflecken fry

RHD

 

[AndrewPayne007]

Sounds like your fry is not free swimming yet. They still live of their egg sac. As soon as they are free swimming they will live of microorganism in you thank. My A. sp. Wangenflecken fry do not take brine shrimps the first week after they are free swiming, they are to small.

Some of them still seem to have a prominent eggsac... and haven't moved at all for the last while. The others move around a fair amount and occasionally swim above the mopani about an inch or so only to return the next second or so to the surface of the wood. The mother has had them there all day and has been kept busy chasing Beckford's pencilfish out of the area. The male seems to be helping with this... occasionally... Here's a (bad) picture of her above the fry and mopani! Thanks for your help Fart!

 

[Mike Wise]

I start feeding BBS to ALL of my apisto fry once they become freeswimming. I personally have never had a problem with Wangenflecken fry eating it from the start. What the fry don't eat, the parents will eat. Of course, I always use 'old' tanks with its microfauna. Nannostomus beckfordi has a reputation as one of the few pencilfish that will try to eat small fry.