Apistogramma Double Red Flashing Another Female

[DanielG]

A little back story:

I had a male/female pair of 'Double Reds' in my tank for a while. One particular morning I decided I was going to dose some dry KNO3 to get the levels back up. Well, the male apisto found himself dashing in and out of the cloud of nutrients I just dropped in the water, and within about 5 minutes he was visibly shaken up. He began swimming sideways, upside down, you name it. Within 40 minutes he was dead...

So the remaining occupants: 7 neon tetras, a 'Tefe' female, and the 'Double Red' female. After the male passed, the peace between the two females seemed to be at an all time high. Both fish would swim together, hangout and do the likes. Until today...now, I did do an evaporation top off with arguably warmer water....and this is what I found:

Hmmm......

 

[Mike Wise]

Apistogrammas = cichlid; cichlid = territorial. Females hoping for a male to appear???

 

[DanielG]

Apistogrammas = cichlid; cichlid = territorial. Females hoping for a male to appear???

It would appear so. I had a double red male in there but the tefe female wanted nothing to do with him. As of now, my LFS wants $45 for a double red pair...not something I want to do now because its a 20 gallon tank, and having 4 apisto's in it may cause some territory issues. It was hard enough having just the three in there.

 

[wethumbs]

Did you go check out Aquarium Co-op, there should be a bunch of double red males there.

 

[DanielG]

Did you go check out Aquarium Co-op, there should be a bunch of double red males there.

Actually, just checked with them today. It would seem they have a number of 'Double Red' males available. I went ahead and bought one from them that it expected to ship out tomorrow. Will post a pic when he arrives!

 

[dwarfpike]

Did realize you were local wethumbs.

 

[wethumbs]

I am not! Its the power of internet....muhahaha!

 

[dwarfpike]

I'm surprised the Co-Op would come up in a search, they are very new. Just over 6 months open if I remember right.

DanielG - I'm surprised Clark's didn't have them or get them in. They seemed to have everything plus the kitchen sink last time I was there (granted a few years ago).

 

[wethumbs]

Clark's got them but they cost more.....much more.

 

[DanielG]

Yeah, I'm hoping to avoid purchasing at Clark's ONLY because they will NOT sell them individually. If you want Apisto's, 99% of the time have to buy the PAIR.

 

[DanielG]

Long story short....I purchased a 'Double Red' apisto from Aquarium Co-op out of Edmonds. The fish itself was only $10.99 and shipping came to $13. Great looking fish.

I had a Tefe and a 'Double Red' female in the tank. When I received the 'Double Red'...in fact...I'm not calling them Double Red's anymore, according to this chart: She is just a red. The male I received is a Alenquer based on the appearance of the white stripe around the outside of the tail fin. I placed the Tefe in the 5 gallon I have in the kitchen tank to allow the Alenquer male to settle in with the 'red' female. Well, within an hour and a half I came to the kitchen to find that she committed fishy-suicide. Damn!

 

[DanielG]

I'm surprised the Co-Op would come up in a search, they are very new. Just over 6 months open if I remember right.

DanielG - I'm surprised Clark's didn't have them or get them in. They seemed to have everything plus the kitchen sink last time I was there (granted a few years ago).

Most of the time they do, if you're willing to pay. I've bought quite a few apisto's from them due to mistakes of my own. But after doing some research I've found that I can find them elsewhere, and generally for cheaper.

 

[Mike Wise]

Daniel, first rule of forum etiquette, is "do not to copy and use other people's data with out permission". If you need to reference something, then copy the URL and add it to your post. This is a picture that I produced for an article on http://mtfb.com/MTFBJuly2005/JULY2005pagesIMAGES/105wisearticle2.htm. If people want to read it or see the chart, I recommend that they go there. If I was really upset about you using it, I'd delete it. Not everyone is so forgiving. This is for the protection of the forum as much as the one who posts.

Now for you and everyone else, if you look at the title of the chart, nowhere does it say anything about using caudal pattern for identifying different forms of A. agassizii by only looking at the caudal pattern. It can't be done. It is only useful if used in addition to other characteristics of the body shape, dark markings, finnage, etc. Now all of the photos used for the chart are from wild populations. I have seen domestic double red aggies with similar red tails - and A. sp. Tefé with long pointed caudals just like A. cf. agassizii (Netz/Net) from Alenquer. You probably had a double red pair if the dorsal fin of the male was also red. A. sp. Tefé really depends on the markings on the body more than the fins, so I can't say what you have as a female. Glad you found the fish you wanted.

 

[DanielG]

Daniel, first rule of forum etiquette, is "do not to copy and use other people's data with out permission". If you need to reference something, then copy the URL and add it to your post. This is a picture that I produced for an article on http://mtfb.com/MTFBJuly2005/JULY2005pagesIMAGES/105wisearticle2.htm. If people want to read it or see the chart, I recommend that they go there. If I was really upset about you using it, I'd delete it. Not everyone is so forgiving. This is for the protection of the forum as much as the one who posts.

Now for you and everyone else, if you look at the title of the chart, nowhere does it say anything about using caudal pattern for identifying different forms of A. agassizii by only looking at the caudal pattern. It can't be done. It is only useful if used in addition to other characteristics of the body shape, dark markings, finnage, etc. Now all of the photos used for the chart are from wild populations. I have seen domestic double red aggies with similar red tails - and A. sp. Tefé with long pointed caudals just like A. cf. agassizii (Netz/Net) from Alenquer. You probably had a double red pair if the dorsal fin of the male was also red. A. sp. Tefé really depends on the markings on the body more than the fins, so I can't say what you have as a female. Glad you found the fish you wanted.

Understood, thanks for the heads up regarding the posts.

The tefe female I couldn't really place on your chart anywhere, which is why I didn't bother to mention her according to your chart. I know that the fish I have are agassizii, which is why I referenced your chart given the title: "Caudal Fin Patterns of Different Population of Apistogramma agassizii". I was merely trying to place them into a population. I do acknowledge your point that one cannot classify a fish based solely on the caudal fin.

 

[DanielG]

As promised, here is a pic of the new male I received from Aquarium Co-op in Edmonds, WA.

Now for the female:

 

[wethumbs]

That's a good looking male. Female looks nice too.

 

[wethumbs]

But then I am bias.

 

[Water Changer]

Very beautiful fish.....

Thanks for the reference link Mike, enjoyed your article.

 

[Mike Wise]

Sadly, after keeping this population since 1998, I lost my last female. Now only have 2 males. The males will be going into my 'retirement tank' and never used for breeding.

 

[DanielG]

Sadly, after keeping this population since 1998, I lost my last female. Now only have 2 males. The males will be going into my 'retirement tank' and never used for breeding.

How many successful spawning's have you gotten out of them, Mike?