Apistogramma chingano Novo Aripuana?

[Chris(wildcaught!)]

Hi to all!

One of the area fishstore has received a shipment from Brazil with the following Apistogramma;

Apistogramma bitaeniata Tefe
Apistogramma agassizi Tefe
Apistogramma chingano Novo Aripuana
Apistogramma urteagai Amatura

what about the last two names, anyone heard them before. Haven't been there yet so I don't know how they look. Might it be worth a visit?

Regards / Chris

 

[blueblue]

Apistogramma chingano Novo Aripuana is not so new, we have got it
in Asia for some time.
see its pictures from my friend
http://www.aqugrass.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=47639

see the following link for A. Sp. Chingarno from Madeira
(from my experience, the Chingarno from Madeira and Novo Aripuana look 99% the same!!)
http://my.so-net.net.tw/bigrice/ap_sp_chingarno_madeira.htm

Hi to all!

One of the area fishstore has received a shipment from Brazil with the following Apistogramma;

Apistogramma bitaeniata Tefe
Apistogramma agassizi Tefe
Apistogramma chingano Novo Aripuana
Apistogramma urteagai Amatura

what about the last two names, anyone heard them before. Haven't been there yet so I don't know how they look. Might it be worth a visit?

Regards / Chris

 

[Mike Wise]

blueblue is correct. The Chingarno fish is an A. pulchra-like form from the Rio Chingarno (lower Rio Madeira). Novo Aripuanã is a shipping station farther up the Madeira from the Chingarno. I doubt that these fish were collected there, only shipped from there.

I have no idea what "Apistogramma urteagai Amatura" is. It is very doubtful that it is really A. urteagai. A. urteagai comes from the the Rio Madre de Dios drainage (extreme western part of the Madeira system) in southeastern Peru. Amatura is a city in Brazi on the Rio Solimões (western Brazilian Amazon) - several thousand miles (partly upstream!) from the type locality of A. urteagai. Without seeing the fish, I can't say what they are.

 

[Chris(wildcaught!)]

Thanks for your answers, i find them helpful.

A. Sp. Chingarno is truly a beautiful fish, judging from the pictures in the links. To me the body shape shows resemblance to A. Iniridae, but it is definately more colorful than A. Iniridae.

Mike Wise says in his post that it is a A.pulchra like form, when I look in Uwe Römers Cichlid Atlas 1 and compares with the pictures in the links it is hard for me to see much resemblance.

I figured out that they come from approximately same river (Rio Madeira system) but Mike what do you mean when you say A.pulchra like form? Please explain for a me.

I will consider to buy this A. Sp. Chingarno, but since i don't know much about it, any info about care and breeding would be welcome. Is it monogamus/polygamus? High level of aggression? Does it require extremly soft water for breeding?

BTW (this is slighly off topic) In Uwe Römers book the first two pictures of A. sp. four-stripe looks at lot like A.Iniridae, any comments?

Regards / Chris

 

[candidi]

BTW (this is slighly off topic) In Uwe Römers book the first two pictures of A. sp. four-stripe looks at lot like A.Iniridae, any comments?

Regards / Chris

Hi Chris

Yes, they seems, but Apistogramma sp four stripes (sp vierstreifen), was from Staeck in 2003 as Apistogramma velifera described. I've a pair with many young, about 100 from 2 spawn.

That's what I can say to you... any experiences... they are very aggressive fishes to each other, they fight a lot and the fishes choose them to make a pair (!)... i was lucky to have a "good" pair.

They need blackwater, by me they spawn all 3 weeks and about 50 youngfishes to all spawns.

I hope I helped you :wink:

Best regards

Sébastien

 

[blueblue]

1. The Pulchra in Romer's Atlas does not look like a Pulchra to me ... anyway, if you take a look at the links i posted, the pictures show what people would regard as pulchra nowadays in the market.
2. Chingarno is very very very easy to keep and breed. Let me tell you a story, i have two friends in Hong Kong. One is a fish vendor, one is just an apisto collector. Both of them just keep the chingarno using the standard method: Soft and acidic water, with aqua-soil as substrate, just sponge filter with air-pump, the tanks is about 40 liter big. Then, both of them have their fish spawn within 1 week after the fish arrived from taiwan to their hands!! The number of fries is over 50 and the fries are very strong and grow very quickly... so, i think the difficulty of keeping Chingarno is probably the lowest among ALL apistos, maybe even easier than aggie!! Caring is also striaght forward with nothing special. There are two things to note:
a. If you have taken a look at the real Chingarno, you may feel a little bit disappointed as it is less attractive ashat w the photos in the japanese websites show you. Moreover, its color may be less appealing compared to the general form of pulchra.
b. Chingarno, because of its fancy name, may have a higher selling price. Here in Asia, chingarno's price was 2-5 times more compared to pulchra last year. If i order a pair of wild caught chingarno from Taiwan to Hong Kong, that would cost me about US$100-US$150 now. But interesting enough, back to 2000, its price was lower than Pulchra...as low as US$US$20-30 a pair...

Thanks for your answers, i find them helpful.

A. Sp. Chingarno is truly a beautiful fish, judging from the pictures in the links. To me the body shape shows resemblance to A. Iniridae, but it is definately more colorful than A. Iniridae.

Mike Wise says in his post that it is a A.pulchra like form, when I look in Uwe Römers Cichlid Atlas 1 and compares with the pictures in the links it is hard for me to see much resemblance.

I figured out that they come from approximately same river (Rio Madeira system) but Mike what do you mean when you say A.pulchra like form? Please explain for a me.

I will consider to buy this A. Sp. Chingarno, but since i don't know much about it, any info about care and breeding would be welcome. Is it monogamus/polygamus? High level of aggression? Does it require extremly soft water for breeding?

BTW (this is slighly off topic) In Uwe Römers book the first two pictures of A. sp. four-stripe looks at lot like A.Iniridae, any comments?

Regards / Chris

 

[Mike Wise]

Mike Wise says in his post that it is a A.pulchra like form, when I look in Uwe Römers Cichlid Atlas 1 and compares with the pictures in the links it is hard for me to see much resemblance.

The reason for your confusion is quite simple. Römer misidentified the fish! The fish in his atlas is an undescribed pertensis-complex species from the Rio Purus & Manacapuru. It was first discussed by Kullander (as A. sp.) in his scientific description of A. hippolytae. It was first imported inti the US in the late 90s by Trop Rio as A. sp. Lyretail Purus. In Japan it was introduced as A. sp. Rondonia & in Germany as A. sp. Erdfresser/Earth-eater. Since Kullander scientifically described A. pulchra several years earlier, he obviously recognized this fish as a species different from A. pulchra. (Chris 1, Uwe 0)

what do you mean when you say A.pulchra like form?

A. pulchra (from the type locality) comes only from the Rio Madeira. There are, however, several other undescribed species belonging to the pulchra-complex. This complex includes round-tailed species of the agassizii-group. Basically they are all A. agassizii-like species with more or less round tails. The complex has been found in several middle Amazon tributaries besides the Rio Madeira.

BTW (this is slighly off topic) In Uwe Römers book the first two pictures of A. sp. four-stripe looks at lot like A.Iniridae, any comments?

My, my, Chris, you are very observant. I assume that you mean the fish on page 959. These show males belonging to the iniridae-complex of the pertensis-group & probably are A. iniridae! In the iniridae-complex, all of the fish have a sailfin with fused membranes (well maybe the first 1 or 2 are not joined) and a lateral band that extends into the root of the tail (no caudal spot). The veliferal-complex, where the Four-stripes Apisto belongs, has a similarly fused sailfin, but the lateral band ends in front of an separate caudal spot at the base of the tail. (Chris 2, Uwe 0)

Uwe's atlas is an excellent reference, but as you can see, it is not perfect.

 

[Chris(wildcaught!)]

Thanks again!

I am stunned, positive way by the quality of all your answers. What a shame I did not find the Apistogramma forum earlier. Well I guess it is better late than never.

Regards / Chris