Any Chance they could still breed in the future?

[mwwade33]

Hey guys,

I have a pair of A. Cacatouides that I got 3 months ago. When I first put them in the tank the male would follow the female around and fan his fins, but she never seemed interested. After a couple of months it seems he got annoyed and now he just attacks her. When ever she is in sight he charges. I put her into a little 3g aquarium that I have set up with a few guppies for a few weeks. I put her back in the 10g last weekend after a water change and the assault continues.

I must say that I think it is being caused by a poor tank layout on my part. The tank is a little more open than I had planned but I've been buying plants one or two at a time every few weeks. The 10g is only supposed to be temporary. I have a 38g that I'm dying to set up but there are plans for me and my wife to move in the near future (buying a house), plus its going to be an expensive venture buying the new hood, lights, plants, substrate, etc...

So, my question here really is this, is my male always going to be aggressive or is there a chance that , in the right setting, they may get along well enough to breed? I'm not too concerned with trying to get them to breed right now because I don't really have the means to properly care for the fry, but it would be nice to know they are fully capable.

Bonus question; Should I move the female to the other tank more permanently or do you think the fish may be resilient enough to handle a little aggression? There are some crevices and caves among the rocks in the tank and places for her to hide. He just keeps her hiding around the bottom.

Thanks for reading this, and thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[Cooder]

Its possible your female isn't mature yet?

Your best option, is to setup a larger tank like the one you mentioned, give them a complex environment and get 2 extra females for him. Emphasis on the complex environment to make sure any non-receptive females can escape the male without getting hurt. This will spread his aggression around so no one female can get all of the negative attention. Male Apistogramma are not fond of females that dont want to breed, so they try to force them out of their territory to make room for females that do! Unfortunately, in a small tank, the females have no where to go!
A 10g is fine for a pair that gets along and breeds regularly, but too small for a harem.

No, you shouldn't keep your female in a 3g. I dont think any fish should be kept in a tank that small permanently. Do as suggested and your female might end up spawning. Im sure being chased around in a small tank by a "hormonal" male, getting stressed out, wouldn't help her in the breeding department!

 

[rr16]

I'm not entirely sure but there may be a chance your "female" is actually an immature subordinate male (also known as a sneaker male!). They apparently do not develop full finnage and look more male, but sneak in and fertilise eggs when the male is not looking. I've read about this happening, particularly in A. cac and can only assume it's true. Perhaps someone on here can clarify this. Have you tried using leaf litter? When my male is aggressive to one or other of the females, or indeed one female to another they aften shoot off and hide in there! It's a relatively easy and cheap way to add some cover to the tank.

 

[Cooder]

I hadn't thought of sneaker males, but its entirely possible. Which is why multiple females in a decent sized tank is best!

 

[mwwade33]

I had considered that my female might be a sneaker male when the male started becoming so aggressive, but it remains significantly smaller than the male. The female hasn't changed in size at all but the male has gotten significantly larger. I have read about sexing A. Cacatouides extensively and it seems that these days sexing them can be nearly impossible.

I'm not sure I really want to do the leaf litter in this tank. I think I would rather make it more densely planted. That's my overall goal anyway.

 

[MonteSS]

Remove the male to the 3g and put the female in the 10g for a week or so.

 

[gerald]

Cooder's suggestion for a bigger tank with more structure and more females is a good idea, but if thats' not an option then go with Monte's idea. Let the female get established (and mature enough to breed) in the breeding tank, then add the male to her territory, rather than adding a scared female to an established male's territory. Keeping the 2 tanks side-by-side so they can see each other might also have some benefit. I would wait until her color and behavior suggest that she's ready (e.g., digging sand out of cave). Assuming the male is ready, that may work, but do the re-introduction at a time when you can sit back and watch for the first 1/2 hour at least, so you can intervene if either fish is getting hurt. 10 gal isn't much space.

By The Way -- the term "sneaker male" applies to a BREEDING male that sneaks in with breeding pair (looking like a female or juvenile) to spray his sperm. A subordinate male who's male color and behavior are suppressed by a dominant male (usually in an aquarium) and isn't breeding is NOT a sneaker male.

 

[rr16]

Cooder's suggestion for a bigger tank with more structure and more females is a good idea, but if thats' not an option then go with Monte's idea. Let the female get established (and mature enough to breed) in the breeding tank, then add the male to her territory, rather than adding a scared female to an established male's territory. Keeping the 2 tanks side-by-side so they can see each other might also have some benefit. I would wait until her color and behavior suggest that she's ready (e.g., digging sand out of cave). Assuming the male is ready, that may work, but do the re-introduction at a time when you can sit back and watch for the first 1/2 hour at least, so you can intervene if either fish is getting hurt. 10 gal isn't much space.

By The Way -- the term "sneaker male" applies to a BREEDING male that sneaks in with breeding pair (looking like a female or juvenile) to spray his sperm. A subordinate male who's male color and behavior are suppressed by a dominant male (usually in an aquarium) and isn't breeding is NOT a sneaker male.

Cheers for that. As I said, I'm not sure of the exact way it works and am not sure of the terminology. Never kept more than one male A. cac so not too sure how they colour up or sneaker males etc, was just going off what I remembered reading and piecing together ages ago. Thanks for the clarification though.

 

[Chromedome]

You mention having a lot of plants, but you don't say what kind of cave structure you have for the female to hide/breed in. Leaf litter will also serve the purpose, but she has to be able to get underneath something. You say the male keeps attacking, but if she had a cave with a small enough opening, he would not be able to do so.

 

[mwwade33]

This is my current set up. There are little caves in between and under some of the rocks. The cave under the rocks to the right has kind of been claimed by the clown pleco though haha. I want to get a couple more plants for the back ground and move around what is there a little bit. The whole scape is a little more open than I had originally planned, but my original plan was to set up in a much larger tank. The other rocks that I have would have been huge in this tank and there would be no where to put the plants. The 38g will have many more rocks with nooks, crannys and caves for the fish. (I will never see my clown pleco again)

Gerald, I have the 38g just not the location or the means to set it up right now. For the time being it sits empty in my basement. I'm going to have a couple of months until I can do that so what I have is what I've got. Perhaps I'll try moving the male to the smaller tank for a week or so.

 

[MonteSS]

Tank looks great. Should work with a bonded pair. Hopefully yours will work it out.