Alter Ph

[flashbang]

I am aware of using peat and oak leaves etc. My problem is i don't realy like the brown water that it produces-i like to see the wonderful colours of the fish and not the subdued colours with the brown water.
I am sure this has been asked befor but has any one tried lime juice or any other juice ? I have been testing lemon juice in a bucket of water(minus any fish) also i have tried an apple, both of these lower the Ph. I would really like to use something like this but don't know what the long term effect's would be. Any advice would be welcome-thanks

 

[Mike Wise]

If the fruit acids work for you (I've never tried them), then it would be cheaper to buy the chemical acids: malic acid (apple) or citric acid (lime). The only chemical acid that I've tried is hydrochloric acid. A little goes a long way, but it does increase conductivity some. Either way, don't add the chemical acids to the tank with fish in it. Mix and adjust pH in a separate container and use the adjusted water for water changes.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I don't think fruit juices are a viable option as they will add sugars as well as acids and increase the BOD (Biochemical Oxygen Demand). CO2 will lower pH (but not as quickly or as far as HCl). Have you tried Alder cones? they have many of the same effects, but without causing as much tint.

It is very difficult to successfully acidify hard water, as most soft water fish come from water thats have low TDS and adding any soluble compounds to it, even if they lower pH, will increase conductivity. Personally I wouldn't try to reduce pH with either acids or CO2, but concentrate on maintaining stable, clean water conditions.

I live in a very hard water area, and I use rain-water for the tanks. I can't breed extreme black-water fishes successfully as even with peat filtration my water is still too hard, but I can keep most fish in this.

cheers Darrel

 

[flashbang]

Hi Darrel, thanks for the info. Have allready tried Alder cones and they certainly colour the water up and go mouldy quickly. What will sugars from the fruit do in the long term to the water quality? I certainly don't want to use chemicals and i am looking for a natural way of lowering the Ph of my tap water which is soft and 7.6 from the tap (according to the API ph test solutions i use )
I am trying to get a pair of Agassizi Fire Red to spawn at the moment, they have been on their own in a 60 ltr tank for 3 months now and show no sign of spawning. Have used Oak leaves and alder cones in their tank which i think looks awful Ph about 7.0, have altered temp several times up to 80F. I would like to put them in the comunity tank cos they look fantastic, i just thought i would like to get them to produce some fry-thanks

 

[slimbolen99]

Aside from using fair amounts of driftwood, I haven't found a viable option for lowering pH and softening up the water. I have found that the alder cones provide some sort of benefit in terms of managing fungusing of eggs. Oak or almond tree leaves haven't substantially lowered pH for me.

That being said, it would be interesting to see if you could lower pH using various fruits. I'm sure that tomatoes are fairly acidic. That may be an option to try, as the amount of sugars is (by taste) significantly less than apples.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Sorry for not answering, but I've been away for a few days. I don't think any fruit acids will work, the carbohydrate content is always going to be a problem. Citric, malic and oxalic acids are the chief acids in fruit.

As Mike suggested HCl (hydrochloric or muriatic acid) is the acid of choice, as it contains only hydrogen and chlorine, but it is a very strong acid, meaning both that a small amount of it reduces pH drastically and that a bottle lasts a long time. It is also very caustic.

Personally I'd try rain-water or stick with the oak leaves, oak bark and/or alder cones.

Your water sounds interesting, you say it is soft but has a pH above pH 7.
This makes trying to acidify it very dangerous, as it has little reserve of carbonate buffering and the pH is likely to drop to very low levels with the addition of an acid.

My suspicion is that it is the very soft, clean "Elan valley" water, and it has had phosphates and an alkaline compound added to ensure that it doesn't dissolve lead from the older piping, this is for the "control of plumbosolvency".

Have a look here:
<http://www.dwi.gov.uk/about/annual-report/2008/Central.pdf>

cheers Darrel

 

[flashbang]

Hi Darrel, thanks for the reply. IInteresting read about the water quality in the central area.Yes my water does come from the Elan valley.
I would love to use rainwater but it's not allways available and collecting enough to maintain a supply for me would require a lot of storage contaiers.

I have been reading up on citric acid,it's cheap and easily obtained .It's used for an amazing amount of things including altering the Ph of soft drinks and removing rust from steel.
I will just have to take the plunge and try some citric acid on a spare tank, i have some Cacatuoid fry growing on at the moment and will use some of them when they are a bit larger.
Thanks Warren