260l Planted Tank - with Apisto's?

[Mark.A]

Hi all...

I'm an experienced fish keeper but I've only ever kept Rams out of the Dwarf Cichlids and am about to set up a 260l planted tank in which I would like to include some Apisto's. The tank is a Juwel Vision 260 - Bow fronted tank, 4ft long, 2ft high and 18" front to back.

It's going to be a low light planted tank but will be heavily planted.

By heavily planted, I mean I am looking at setting it up similar to this layout:

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/Img2004/View/425.jpg

What I want to know is will my fish stocking list be okay in there together? There would be plenty of cover and not much open space, as you can see.

I would stock the other fish first and then gradually add the Apisto's as I got hold of them, unless that would be a problem.

This is the list of fish what I would like to keep together in it:

A Pair of Angelfish
Loads of Cardinal Tetras (80-100?)
Pair of Apistogramma agassizii
Pair of Apistogramma cacatuoides
Pair of Apistogramma viejita
Pair of Microgeophagus ramirezi
Pair of Taeniacara candidi
Several Otocinclus sp.
Several Corydoras sterbai
1 x male Bristlenose Plec

Can you tell me if that will be a problem or not?

 

[Mike Wise]

I personally believe that your 90 gal/345L tank will be overcrowded with so many fish, but it is possible to keep them in such conditions with vary careful maintenance and feeding. I've also found that heavily planted tanks do not do as well when heavily stocked with fish than with light loads.

 

[Mark.A]

Thanks Mike, but I was asking more about any possible problem with territorialism rather than stocking levels. :wink:

 

[Chris(wildcaught!)]

I think that overcrowded = territorial problem. What you have on the list is 6 different species of cichlids plus other fish. I would not put so many different species in a 260 l tank.

On the other hand if you have plenty of individuals of a few species the aggression between fishes tend to be more spread out.

But still to many fish I think will be a problem. So start out with just a few of them and see how it works out.

Regards / Chris

 

[Roach]

Damn thats a lot of Cardinals. If you bought them all from Sydney you'd be looking at around $500-600.
That's pretty expensive food for just 2 Angels!

 

[Mark.A]

Really? lol

Not that expensive here in the UK, they'll cost me about £70.00. :wink:

I take it you think the Angelfish will eat them? I've never known them too when I've kept them before. I suppose they might if you have adult Angels with young Cardinals.

 

[apistoireland]

I agree, way too many fish. You don't mention what filtration you are intending to use but you will seriously push any filter. I'd get rid of the angels and would keep a small shoal maybe 10-15 Apistos of the same species. Have a look what Römer says about keeping apistos in groups.

 

[Mark.A]

I'm not sure how it got on to the subject of their being too many fish but, IMO, it's not that badly over stocked.

I've kept tanks with stocking levels like this before succesfully and seen friends tanks kept for years with more than this. Just for your information, the filter being used is a Fluval 404.

I was only asking if you thought the Apisto's would be a problem with each other territorially. Although since I originally asked I have read that they are fine with smaller territories and tend to leave each other alone if the tank is split up enough for them to claim a small territory of their own.

Who is 'Römer'?

 

[Greg PL]

I was only asking if you thought the Apisto's would be a problem with each other territorially. Although since I originally asked I have read that they are fine with smaller territories and tend to leave each other alone if the tank is split up enough for them to claim a small territory of their own.

yes, there most likely will be problems. the female will happily claim a territory of 15cm radius (1/2 ft), the male can claim 1 sq meter if possible. the presence of other, bigger cichlids will not serve them well.

Who is 'Römer'?

you may check on www.apistogrammaidiots.com
He is a known dwarf cichlid expert and an author of "Cichlid Atlas" as well as the "Cichlid Atlas 2" that we are all looking towards

Greg

 

[Mark.A]

So how many pairs of Dwarf Cichlids do you think would be happy, territory wise in a 4ft long x 18" wide x 24" high tank? ...and which from the one's I listed would you suggest.

 

[apistoireland]

Since this is the first time you are keeping apistos I would go for A.cacatouides. Most of the ones on offer will have been bred in captivity and will not be as fragile as some species that tend to be wild caught. As analternative you could go for A.borelli which is a more peaceful species and will also adjust to harder water.
Taenicara candidi is a beautiful fish but not really suitable for a community tank.
As for the number of fish you can keep of any one species, it will depend on a. the species and b. your decoration.
I suggest you could start with a small group of 10 cacatouides ( 3 males/ 7 females). If you have enough hiding spaces you should be OK. Apistos used to be kept with a single male and several females. This was the common wisdom when I started out 20 odd years ago. These days the thinking has changed considerably and a small shoal seem to be the more natural way to keep them. If you have kept mbunas you will know what I am talking about. Have enough individuals in one tank and the agression will be spread more evenly among the members of the shoal rather than be targeted on the weakest individual.