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Thank you, Ted Judy

Mike Wise

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Some background. I had a wonderful weekend in Wisconsin last month where I gave talks to both the Madison and Milwaukee clubs. Ted was my host and graciously put me up at his home while there. Just before I left to fly home Ted gave me one of the 6"/15cm glazed spawning cave that he sells.

Forward a month. I hadn't had any spawns for months due to me being busy with my talk schedule (and being lazy). My fish were only getting minimal water changes with tap water. I really wanted my A. cf. payaminonis (Pantoja) to give me some fry but they seemed to want more than just plain ol' tap water. Being the holiday season, I was just too busy to set up the RO system and peat filteration tanks. Then I remembered Ted's idea of using pots with filled spagnum peat for his krib species. I thought, "would it work for apistos, too"? So into the payaminonis tank goes the glazed spawning cave with about a 1/4 cup/50ml lump of sphagnum moss stuffed in the back. A few days later I see the female investigating the cave and then she moves in permanently, only leaving to chase the male and other target payaminonis away (a good sign!). Yesterday I go down to my fish room and the female is proudly guiding about 25 very tiny fry around the tank! An early Christmas present!

Ted's idea of producing a micro-blackwater environment in the spawning cave worked! For those who are having breeding problems with some of their apistos, you might want to try this method. It worked for me. My next trial species will be the true A. sp. Papagei (Río Ampiyacu) and A. cf. eunotus (Shishita). So thanks Ted!
 

Ttw

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Not sure I understand. Are you putting the peat in the cave loose or in a bag? Does the peat get out into the tank?
 

Josh

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Does the peat lower or raise the pH in this case? This creates a micro-climate that is more favorable for spawning?
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
Does the peat lower or raise the pH in this case? This creates a micro-climate that is more favorable for spawning?
It lowers the pH, and judging by Mike's result it definitely does make conditions more suitable for spawn survival.

The original thread is here: <http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/index.php?threads/keeping-low-ph.12720/> and the linked threads explain why sphagnum moss (and "white" sphagnum peat) has a CEC, and why all the cation sites are filled with H+ ions, which are then exchanged for other cations. Acids are defined as "H+ ion" donors, and pH is the ratio of H+:O-H ions, so adding H+ ions lowers pH, and the water is softened when Ca++ ions etc are exchanged for H+ ions.

Sphagnum is also anti-microbial "Sphagnan in its acid form is a weak macromolecular acid that can inhibit bacterial growth by lowering the pH of environments with a low buffering capacity." <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19187129>.

cheers Darrel
 

aarhud

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Very interesting stuff. Please update us on how it works with the other black water species Mike.
 

Mike Wise

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Thanks, Darrel, for your excellent explanation. I put the peat in loose, no bag. I just stuff it toward the back of the cave and it mostly stays there. My water is pretty soft/neutral from the tap so I imagine this trick works better for me than it would for those who have harder/alkaline tap water. Still, it's worth a try before investing in a water treatment system.
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
I remembered the original thread, because although I use rain-water for the tanks (even in the lab.) it is all limestone here and our rain-water has some degree of carbonate buffering. I'd never had any joy with breeding true black-water fish, but as soon as I read Ted's post, I thought "genius" and "why didn't I think of that"
....I have recently figured out that pH can be manipulated at the 'microhabitat' level for spawning fish. The reason some species need very low pH has more to do with the low pH's antiseptic effect on eggs than with anything to do with the health of the parents. Sperm motility is PROBABLY more closely linked with hardness and temperature than pH, but soft water is the easy part... use an RO machine.

I have been using long-fiber sphagnum moss stuffed into my spawning caves to create a lower pH environment where the eggs are being laid. Using a pin point pH meter I can pull out the cave with water in it and measure the pH, which is usually 1 - 2 points lower than the pH in the water outside the cave. I have Parananochromis gabonicus breeding in an aquarium with a pH of 6.5 - 7.0 (using RO water), but the pH in the caves with moss is pH 5.0 - 6.0.
Cheers Darrel
 

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